General Discussion Thread VIII

[GnomeWorks]

Sorry to interrupt the current conversation going on, but... could I have some more looks at the learner, and maybe some more input? We've been making steady progress, but I'd like more comments and discussion so I can get it on the path to being approved.

Well, for starters, we should allow people in adventures to make items without spending any craft points if they spend the appropriate time inside the adventure (we don't allow this yet, right?). So for instance, Bob the Cleric, who ran out of Craft Points because there are so few, wants to make a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. But he's on an adventure. But he also has everything he needs to make it in the village where they are resting. And all the other PCs want the wand too, so they agree to wait a day in the village. This should work without costing Craft Points, since the point of the Craft Points is to allow crafting when you don't have the in-game time.

I don't know if this is such a good idea. Having two crafting methods seems a little much to me. I could see the possibility of someone getting into an adventure specifically to avoid spending their craft points, which wouldn't be good.

 

[Patlin]

That sounds interesting, Rystil. I personally have no interest in crafting with my current "stable" of characters, but I have on rare occasions played around with the Artificer class from Eberron, so I have some sympathy for the plight of crafters. One of the advantage of the Warforged Artificer is the fact that since Warforged don't sleep, I intended to have my character craft on most nights when he would otherwise be sleeping. 6 hours here, 8 hours there... it adds up.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't know if this is such a good idea. Having two crafting methods seems a little much to me. I could see the possibility of someone getting into an adventure specifically to avoid spending their craft points, which wouldn't be good.

Well, its not really such a radical idea. After all, it is the way the Craft Point system was designed to work by the people who wrote it in Unearthed Arcana. The point of the Craft Point system is to allow for item creation when you cannot account for the time. It was not meant to disallow creation of items when you do have the time. In fact, this is why the original craft rules were a neat idea that I thought could be used in my game, while the LEW craft rules had me taking one look and realising that anyone trying to craft on LEW was screwed (now, admittedly I didn't know that a Job System thread would appear at the time).

So really, I'm not asking to make some weird variant that would throw in more systems than is usual--I'm just asking that the Craft Points be used as they were originally intended (check out page 97 of Unearthed Arcana).

 

[GnomeWorks]

So really, I'm not asking to make some weird variant that would throw in more systems than is usual--I'm just asking that the Craft Points be used as they were originally intended (check out page 97 of Unearthed Arcana).

Hmm... you're right. Second paragraph, first line, clear as day. This system was intended to be set alongside the normal craft rules, not to replace them.

I suppose I don't see a problem with it, then. I'm still a bit leery about adventurers joining an adventure for the sole purpose of crafting without using craft points, though.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Hmm... you're right. Second paragraph, first line, clear as day. This system was intended to be set alongside the normal craft rules, not to replace them.

I suppose I don't see a problem with it, then. I'm still a bit leery about adventurers joining an adventure for the sole purpose of crafting without using craft points, though.

I'm still a bit leery about adventurers joining an adventure for the sole purpose of crafting without using craft points, though.

I do agree with you on this, but the system should hopefully police itself. In other words, unless the entire party agrees to wait the in-game time for the item (with whatever ramifications this has on the time-sensitiveness of their adventure), the GM and judge should probably kick out the wizard who ignores the other adventurers and stays in the village making items while the others go into the desert for a month

 

[Bront]

Actualy, Rystil, you have it backwards then. The craft system is actualy more for when you're on an adventure, because that's when you don't have the time, so you simply spend the points, and finish up something you were working on. And off time can still be used for normal crafting.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Actualy, Rystil, you have it backwards then. The craft system is actualy more for when you're on an adventure, because that's when you don't have the time, so you simply spend the points, and finish up something you were working on. And off time can still be used for normal crafting.

Well not exactly. The Craft Point system is meant to balance creation when you don't have access to the time resource but still want to craft something. This might be because of adventure urgency or because you are stuck in a timleess limbo like the RDI.

But if an adventure gives time to craft (let's say the party rests a day in the village low on HP, but the wizard doesn't need the rest, so he makes a scroll), then you can still make items in an adventure without craft points.

 

[Bront]

True, but if there isn't time, you can use craft points for an item. But, if there is time, and in a timeless limbo I think there should be, it shouldn't be a problem. In an adventure is one thing, but I think in the RDI or your own shop thread, you should have the time to craft, particularly because time is being abstract.

 

[Rystil Arden]

True, but if there isn't time, you can use craft points for an item. But, if there is time, and in a timeless limbo I think there should be, it shouldn't be a problem. In an adventure is one thing, but I think in the RDI or your own shop thread, you should have the time to craft, particularly because time is being abstract.

There is a problem with that, unfortunately. Let's say I make a wizard character named Mr. Magic Guy, and through perserverance, Mr. Magic Guy gets 14750 XP. He is a level 5 Wizard with Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous, Crafts Arms&Armour, etc. Now he sets up a shoppe called "Mr. Magic Guy's Shoppe of Many Magic Things" and asks the PCs to check out his wares, halting his adventuring for now. By selling commissioned items, Mr. Magic Guy sells about 59k worth of items for 50% profit, then uses those profits to craft another 59k of items for himself. True, he is almost a level behind where he should be, but he just got 59k of free items. Yikes!

 

[Kahuna Burger]

That makes the feat worth while to get, but then could cause issues of people flooding the market with Masterwork items.

technicly the market is already "flooded" as any pc can buy any masterwork item they want. I think the feat cost and additional craft points needed should enourage pc crafters to stick to market price in selling their wares*, and if they are making them for their personal use, I don't see a problem with that for the cost of a feat, craft points and skill points.

*and if neccassary a bit of metagamed pressure from the local crafters guild to not undercut them....