General Discussion Thread VIII

[Patlin]

It seems to me that if he's a level behind and has gotten those items in exchange, he should be treated as a level 6 character. His power is simply wrapped up in his personal posessions.

Also, any system that considers a great deal of dedication (the feat), months of work, and all the perils of opening your own business to be "for free" is flat out wacky. If people are that opposed to crafting, it seems to me the thing to do is to outlaw it altogether.

I haven't tested it in D&D, but I have a world of warcraft character who has developed disproportionate wealth for his level. Doesn't seem to be all that significant a problem to me.

All in all, I'd rather have the level than the stuff.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It seems to me that if he's a level behind and has gotten those items in exchange, he should be treated as a level 6 character. His power is simply wrapped up in his personal posessions.

Also, any system that considers a great deal of dedication (the feat), months of work, and all the perils of opening your own business to be "for free" is flat out wacky. If people are that opposed to crafting, it seems to me the thing to do is to outlaw it altogether.

I haven't tested it in D&D, but I have a world of warcraft character who has developed disproportionate wealth for his level. Doesn't seem to be all that significant a problem to me.

All in all, I'd rather have the level than the stuff.

months of work

I agree that it is fair if they have to spend months of work (heck, I'm the one saying we should make the craft point system more lenient ) but they can do it all in a week or so (or less or more depending on when the highish PCs start getting out of adventures) if we allow Bront's proposed system where you can just make them instantly without craft points

As for rather having the level than the stuff...well, ounce for ounce, build a wizard level 6, or even a fighter level 7, and I'll build one that's one level lower with 59k of free stuff that is objectively better in all ways, (Oh, I have tested it in D&D, in case it matters. No worries though )

 

[Bront]

There is a problem with that, unfortunately. Let's say I make a wizard character named Mr. Magic Guy, and through perserverance, Mr. Magic Guy gets 14750 XP. He is a level 5 Wizard with Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous, Crafts Arms&Armour, etc. Now he sets up a shoppe called "Mr. Magic Guy's Shoppe of Many Magic Things" and asks the PCs to check out his wares, halting his adventuring for now. By selling commissioned items, Mr. Magic Guy sells about 59k worth of items for 50% profit, then uses those profits to craft another 59k of items for himself. True, he is almost a level behind where he should be, but he just got 59k of free items. Yikes!

You're also assuming that people will be able/willing to buy that much stuff from Mr Magic Guy. More likely, he'll have to spend money on the shop (looks like that's going to be part of the way selling items works, and I think that's a good idea), tools, and if he's selling things at the same price as cost, people will just as likely buy it from a regular merchant, or try to get it on an adventure where they might be able to get a discount. So, he'll likely only get 35-40% profit unless he has something else going, and fine, he crafts items for himself and then has to go adventure. That doesn't seem unreasonable, and beyond that, there is only so many items you can craft at 5th level wizard (The level req will get you on a lot of them at that point, as well as the spell requirements, which could cost you more money to learn, etc).

I don't see it as an issue. Besides, he does that 3 times, then he may have an inordinate amount of stuff, but everyone else is 7-10th level. I don't think everyone is going to have problems with it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The level req will get you on a lot of them at that point

There is not a level req. Please don't make me cry and say that there is. Check the errata.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't see it as an issue. Besides, he does that 3 times, then he may have an inordinate amount of stuff, but everyone else is 7-10th level. I don't think everyone is going to have problems with it.

Heehee, I find it amusing that now I'm sorta defending craft points, but here goes. Okay, let's say he does it his three times. Now he's level 5 with a +5 cloak of resistance, +6 headband of int, +6 belt of con, etc. Now he goes adventuring with his level 7 buddies. He pulls his own weight, and is not that much more powerful than the rest, but then he starts getting his bonus 3.5 edition XP boost for being two levels behind, and suddenly, he starts to be only one level behind, and then none.

 

[Patlin]

As for rather having the level than the stuff...well, ounce for ounce, build a wizard level 6, or even a fighter level 7, and I'll build one that's one level lower with 59k of free stuff that is objectively better in all ways, (Oh, I have tested it in D&D, in case it matters. No worries though )

Objectively better in all ways? I'll accept that as a friendly challenge, but as part of the judging I'd like to have you assume a 12th level character looking over both of us and deciding whether either or both is a tempting enough target for robbery, such that he is willing to offend the local law.

Level's are a lot harder to take away from a character than stuff.

 

[Patlin]

and suddenly, he starts to be only one level behind, and then none.

OK, you've got me there. That's a problem.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Objectively better in all ways? I'll accept that as a friendly challenge, but as part of the judging I'd like to have you assume a 12th level character looking over both of us and deciding whether either or both is a tempting enough target for robbery, such that he is willing to offend the local law.

Level's are a lot harder to take away from a character than stuff.

I accept, but add the further stipulation that the level 12 thief character be a CR 12 Succubus with Rogue levels.

 

[Bront]

There is not a level req. Please don't make me cry and say that there is. Check the errata.

Sorry, caster level req for wonderous items.

 

[Bront]

I accept, but add the further stipulation that the level 12 thief character be a CR 12 Succubus with Rogue levels.

What is it with you and Succubi today?