Generation: rolling vs. point buy

[Al]

Go Organic! 4d6 in order, one reroll and one swap. I opted for this method as opposed to straight 4d6 when I realised that no matter how hard you tried to cajole them, a lot of players played the same characters over and over again. Moreover, you get a lot of potentially interesting non-standard character builds. Sorceror with 16 Strength? Fighter with 17 Intelligence? Why not? Far far better than the tired old cliches that can emerge with point buy. Ever wonder why everyone DMG NPC has the stock dump stat (i.e. Charisma for nearly everyone other than bards, clerics, paladins and sorcerors)? Point buy.

 

[Telas]

Ever wonder why everyone DMG NPC has the stock dump stat (i.e. Charisma for nearly everyone other than bards, clerics, paladins and sorcerors)? Point buy.

Beep! Wrong answer.

None of my NPCs use dump stats, unless I'm looking to build in a certain trait. Only one PC has under a 10 in my campaign (and it is indeed charisma, but since he gets kicked out of more meetings than he gets let into, the player probably now regrets it).

I doubt that the character generation technique is what's making character optimization an overriding concern among so many gamers. I blame video games and the ease with which 3.x lets you turn an RPG into a tactical simulation.

Telas

 

[Thanee]

...when I realised that no matter how hard you tried to cajole them, a lot of players played the same characters over and over again.

Hey, maybe they simply like it that way?

Moreover, you get a lot of potentially interesting non-standard character builds. Sorceror with 16 Strength? Fighter with 17 Intelligence? Why not? Far far better than the tired old cliches that can emerge with point buy.

Yeah, that's what I like about those random methods as well.

But I can also understand, that others want full control over their stats and think up these "quirks" themselves completely.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

HERE in the House Rules forum, there are a few alternate ability generation methods written up.

Bye
Thanee

 

[S'mon]

Other - I use both.

 

[Darkness]

This is not a problem at all for someone willing to play whatever fate hands them.

For certain values of 'fate.'

4d6/drop lowest is a somewhat generous system to begin with, compared to the good old 3d6. Which is nice - 3d6 often requires a lot of re-rolls if you want even halfway acceptable stats.

Many people who roll use an even more generous system (e.g., 5d6/drop lowest two, re-roll 1s, organic, etc.).

What's more, "hopeless" stats (no stat>13, sum of modifiers <+1) can be re-rolled even under the RAW.

If all that wasn't enough, many groups allow some kind of re-roll (or point-buy) if you aren't satisfied with what the system (with all its above biases toward high stats) gives you.

Ever wonder why everyone DMG NPC has the stock dump stat (i.e. Charisma for nearly everyone other than bards, clerics, paladins and sorcerors)? Point buy.

They use a standard array, actually: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. It's more like rolling, in that you have no control over what stats you get and can only arrange the numbers you were handed (but of course everyone "rolls" the same stats under this system).

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Ever wonder why everyone DMG NPC has the stock dump stat (i.e. Charisma for nearly everyone other than bards, clerics, paladins and sorcerors)? Point buy.

I'm at risk of flogging a dead horse but the issue that you point to has nothing to do with point buy and everything to do with customization. Any method that allows the player to choose what goes where opens the probability of dump statting, for that issue you're spot on with the official option of the 'Organic' method as a solution.

You could use point buy with the 'Organic' method: assign the stats (e.g. default array) and roll to see where each ability score is placed, allowing the one swap after placement. As there is a loss of customization I would increase the point buy by 3 to compensate, probably increasing the 2 middle scores. Hmm, maybe I'd allow the player to place those 3 points - it'd also simulate the 1*reroll allowed.

I say 3 points because customizing is worth .5 of an ability point by my reckoning.

 

[Testament]

Wait, wait, wait. When you're talking Organic generation Al, you're forcing them to pick race and class first? What the spork!? I've seen it done, and the result was 5 out of 6 characters in the party being unplayably useless characters, to say nothing of the fact that you just killed the monk, paladin and bard classes! When the wizard ended up Int 11 and the fighter was Con 8, the problem is obvious. If you're going organic, then the only way to do it is stats, then race and class, anything else is bastadry of the highest order.

I let my players pick. If they go point-buy, the get 32 points, if they're going rolled then they roll 7 sets and pick 6, arranged as they wish. Everyone then rolls their Appearance (yeah, I use it). Those who go point buy get 3/4 HP at each level after 1st, the others roll theirs, re-rolling 1s. Everyone's happy, including me.

Personally, I'll always choose point-buy. D&D is one of the only RPGs I know where the default character generation method is random (Deadlands is an exception, I don't know any others though). I want control, baby! Nor do I want a re-enactment of my first ever D&D experience, where I rolled 2 18s on the 4d6 with my Rogue, and ended up with a 14 as my lowest, while my best mate ended up with nothing above a 15 on his Barbarian, and got a 3. An extreme case, but something I'll never forget. No thanks, everyone gets an even break with point-buy, and I can easily tell if someone's cheated on char-gen.

 

[Thanee]

With the one swap you are guaranteed to have your primary attribute at a decent level, so it's not that bad, even if you were to decide on race and class first.

But classes, that have more demands than a single primary attributes (as you say, Monk, Paladin, Bard, etc) are really bad choices then. It works well only really with extremely simple character concepts.

Bye
Thanee

 

[MonsterMash]

For the campaign I GM it's roll 4d6 drop the lowest six times, then free assignment to the abilities.

In the campaign I play in its choice of point buy or rolling (4d6 method as above).

Personally I enjoy the random method more as it is more exciting and varied than point buy which tends to produce less flawed or distinctive characters.