Herobizkit
Adventurer
double post 
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Gestalting
- Thread starter Oompa
- Start date
Kurashu
First Post
One thing that wasn't mentioned is prestige classes.
In gestalt, you can only have a prestige class on one side at any given time. Meaning you could do:
Paladin 1/Wilder 1
Paladin 2/Wilder 2
Paladin 3/Wilder 3
Paladin 4/Wilder 4
Paladin 5/Wilder 5
Paladin 6/Wilder 6
Paladin 7/Elocater 1
But Not:
Paladin 6/Wilder 6
Blackguard 1/Elocater 1
Though, you could alternate taking Elocater and Blackguard levels.
Elocater looks like your best prestige class, as well. You gain some handy combat feats, progression on your psionics, and still all good saves. Something to consider.
In gestalt, you can only have a prestige class on one side at any given time. Meaning you could do:
Paladin 1/Wilder 1
Paladin 2/Wilder 2
Paladin 3/Wilder 3
Paladin 4/Wilder 4
Paladin 5/Wilder 5
Paladin 6/Wilder 6
Paladin 7/Elocater 1
But Not:
Paladin 6/Wilder 6
Blackguard 1/Elocater 1
Though, you could alternate taking Elocater and Blackguard levels.
Elocater looks like your best prestige class, as well. You gain some handy combat feats, progression on your psionics, and still all good saves. Something to consider.
Been thinking about a paladin 2/cleric x/fighter/x for insane DMM cheese.
Yes you do have MAD with wis and cha but you'll have a ton of uses of turn undead you can use to power DMM (and if I read it correctly, extra turning will give you 8 extra). The fighter is there for the extra feats, paladin is there for the turning attempts and divine grace.
You could either go as a tank or go a zen archery route
Yes you do have MAD with wis and cha but you'll have a ton of uses of turn undead you can use to power DMM (and if I read it correctly, extra turning will give you 8 extra). The fighter is there for the extra feats, paladin is there for the turning attempts and divine grace.
You could either go as a tank or go a zen archery route
Well, the two more broken combinations are Cleric 20//Druid 20, and Monk 1/Cleric 19//Druid 20. Wizard 20//Psion 20 is also extremely strong.
If you want to make a gish, Kineticist 20 on one side is extremely strong because of 2 powers: Control Body (Kineticist 4) + Solicit Psicrystal (Psion 3). If you use Control Body on yourself and manifest Solicit Psicrystal on it, you get a full round of physical actions as well as a full round of mental actions every round. Plus, your attacks, damage, and AC now use your Int bonus instead of Str or Dex, so you get single attribute dependency out of the deal. This power combination gets around two of the biggest limiters on a gestalt character's power: actions and multiple attribute dependency.
I'm not sure what the best full BAB class to pair with Kineticist 20 is. Barbarian is out because you can't manifest stuff while raging. You also can't really take much advantage of what the Paladin grants you. So that leaves the Fighter and the Ranger. Fighter 20 is probably the best choice here, although the feats in the PHB leave much to be desired. Ranger 20 is the better choice if you want to shoot arrows or TWF. Normally, classes like the Slayer/Illithid Slayer are banned in Gestalt since it's a dual-progression class. If you can convince your DM to let you take it on one side if you remove the manifesting progression (so turning it into a full BAB only PrC), you could do Fighter 10/Slayer 10//Kineticist 20.
By the way, if you're willing to wait till level 9 instead of level 7 to get this combo, you don't have to be a Kineticist.
I suppose Druid 20//Monk 1/Rogue 19 also deserves a mention if you like doing lots of damage with Sneak Attack.
If you want to make a gish, Kineticist 20 on one side is extremely strong because of 2 powers: Control Body (Kineticist 4) + Solicit Psicrystal (Psion 3). If you use Control Body on yourself and manifest Solicit Psicrystal on it, you get a full round of physical actions as well as a full round of mental actions every round. Plus, your attacks, damage, and AC now use your Int bonus instead of Str or Dex, so you get single attribute dependency out of the deal. This power combination gets around two of the biggest limiters on a gestalt character's power: actions and multiple attribute dependency.
I'm not sure what the best full BAB class to pair with Kineticist 20 is. Barbarian is out because you can't manifest stuff while raging. You also can't really take much advantage of what the Paladin grants you. So that leaves the Fighter and the Ranger. Fighter 20 is probably the best choice here, although the feats in the PHB leave much to be desired. Ranger 20 is the better choice if you want to shoot arrows or TWF. Normally, classes like the Slayer/Illithid Slayer are banned in Gestalt since it's a dual-progression class. If you can convince your DM to let you take it on one side if you remove the manifesting progression (so turning it into a full BAB only PrC), you could do Fighter 10/Slayer 10//Kineticist 20.
By the way, if you're willing to wait till level 9 instead of level 7 to get this combo, you don't have to be a Kineticist.
I suppose Druid 20//Monk 1/Rogue 19 also deserves a mention if you like doing lots of damage with Sneak Attack.
Jack Simth
First Post
For broken, try Ninja//Druid. When you reach 5th for Wildshape, your Strength and Dex no longer matter - and this guy is starting at 5th, so the levels before then don't much matter.Zelc said:
Ninja gives Wis to AC, Sudden Strike, swift-action one-round invisibility (limited number of times per day, based on Wisdom), a good Reflex save, and a few less important things. Druid gives Wildshape, Full Spellcasting, and a few less important things. Wildshape into a form with Pounce, buff up (or buff up, then Wildshape, before you hit 6th level and can take Natural Spell). In a surprise round (which you can probably get, what with Hide and Move Silently as class skills) you can Charge for three or four attacks, all of which get Sudden Strike damage. After the surprise round, you go invisible as a Swift action, and Pounce on the next opponent. And the next, and the next, and the next.... until you hit the point where your opponents are immune to the tactic (either because they have See Invisibility, Blindsense, are immune to critical hits, have concealment, or some other cause), you can pretty much one-round any level-appropriate opponent, solo. This starting at 5th level. Additionally, you really only need two stats: Wisdom and Constitution. Wildshape takes care of Strength and Dex, you've got enough skill points that (unless you're stuck as the trap-monkey) you don't really need much Int (you've got four critical skills: Hide, Move Silently, Listen, and Spot; others are useful, but not needed unless you're stuck playing the trap monkey), and Charisma affects none of your class abilities.
With Core forms, the Deinonychus is the best critter available for this tactic at 5th, or the Leopard if your DM doesn't like dinosaurs. At 8th (Large wild shape), you want a Dire Lion or a Megaraptor (depending on whether you prefer more, stronger attacks, or better AC) in areas where Large forms work (although with the Wild Shape errata, as you're still considered humanoid, Reduce Person will fix that right up).
Well, that was kind of what I was getting at with Rogue//Druid, although I suppose Ninja works too. Unfortunately, the OP wanted PHB and XPH only, so no NinjaJack Simth said:
. I'm still not sure it's more broken than Cleric//Druid combos, because Cleric spells are pretty fantastic.The best form for these are the Giant Octopus/Squid. Unfortunately, you probably won't be in water too much. Oddly, though, the Giant Octopus at least has a land speed, so you might be able to pull it off. Heh.
Jack Simth
First Post
Well, the Ninja works better than the Rogue because of the native ability to become invisible, plus the Wis to AC out of the box. The reason it's more broken than Cleric//Druid is because all the good Cleric spells for this stuff take an action in battle (well, unless you're doing Divine Metamagic (Persistent spell) cheese... but that's not Core + XPH either, so...) and you're either doing fighter-level melee with some boosts (Str, size, mostly), or you're doing regular save-or-lose spells, while the Ninja//Druid gets some save or lose spells, but is adding Sudden Strike damage on top of the Druid-Zilla tactics that can make the Fighter cry to begin with.Zelc said:Well, that was kind of what I was getting at with Rogue//Druid, although I suppose Ninja works too. Unfortunately, the OP wanted PHB and XPH only, so no Ninja
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Economy of actions. You want one side to provide passive benefits, the other to provide "nova" capabilities.Zelc said:
Druid // Barbarian would be strong, so long as you are judicious with your Rage.
Barbarian // Cloistered Cleric is one of my favorites for good mechanical synergy, terrible backstory synergy.
Cheers, -- N
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Will said:
If UA rules are allowed, a "martial rogue" (trade SA for fighter feats) is strictly better for this than a fighter. Granted, no weapon specialization, melee weapon mastery, and the like, but over normal Fighter, the Barbarian would gain: a good reflex save, an extra 4 skill points/level, and all other rogue class features. Granted, overlaps on uncanny dodges and trapsense, but you can use UA again to make the Barbarian Wolf Totem, trading those for Imp. Trip and Track.
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