Gestalting

[Zelc]

Economy of actions. You want one side to provide passive benefits, the other to provide "nova" capabilities.

Yea, but the Wild Shape + cleric buffs are good, especially in core only. And at high levels, having access to both Cleric and Druid spells is better than high Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike.

 

[Nifft]

Yea, but the Wild Shape + cleric buffs are good, especially in core only. And at high levels, having access to both Cleric and Druid spells is better than high Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike.

If you think that Rogue = Sneak Attack, then perhaps. I still think you may be planning to have a lot more time to buff than is always available.

I think of Rogue as Sense Motive + Spot + Listen + 3 other bonus skills above what the Cleric would have, plus Evasion, plus Improved Uncanny Dodge, plus four high-level special abilities, and also Sneak Attack.

Basically, Clerics & Druids have two weaknesses: skills and Reflex saves. Rogue patches both. (Scout does too, and is even better thanks to the bonus Feats and Fort bonus, but that's not Core.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Slaved]

Monk // PsyWar

I Really Like the Monk and Psychic Warrior combination!!

For a Build with a Lot of Self Buffing Abilities and Self Healing then Druid // Psychic Warrior works Great as well!!

Making a more Complicated Build you could have Monk 20 along with Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2/War Mind 10/Wilder 4. That would give you so much Self Buffing that your head will spin and so many Combat Options you will have an Answer to Any Situation!!!

 

[Kat']

A few nice and simple Gestalt combinations involving Psionics...

Monk 2/Fighter 18 // Psychic Warrior: Wis synergy, more smack and HP than Monk // PsyWar and a whole bunch of feats, though the saves aren't that good.

Fighter 4 / Monk 6 / Fist of Zuoken 10 // Psychic Warrior 20: alternative to the above, less smack, more manifesting.

Wizard // Psion: insane casting/manifesting.

Rogue // Psion: ultimate skill monkey with excellent manifesting and more "combat-proof" than your usual psion.

Barbarian 2/Fighter 18 // Soulknife: excellent frontliner with full BAB, all good saves, a badass weapon, Psychic Strike, Knife to the Soul and a lot of feats.

Ranger // PsyWar: Wis synergy, ultimate self-buff and self healing, and extra feats. Woot!

 

[irdeggman]

Hmm those combi's sound good, especially the paladin/wilder.. I have 28 point buy.. so i need to make good use.. Maybe if i add LA +1 for the half giant with +2 str/con/cha and -2 Dex..

I start at ECL 5.. So if i give up 1 level of the gestalt on one side for the LA..

I could go paladin 5 / wilder 4..

Hmmm

Wouldn't the paladin restriction apply in this case?

I mean a paladin is forbidden from advancing as a paladin if he takes a different class.

Since gestalt combos keep all restrictions of both classes - I would say that a paladin/wilder can't advance as a paladin/wilder if he takes another class (assuming that the ascetic paladin feat is not in play).

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Wouldn't the paladin restriction apply in this case?

Yes, but a lot of DM's get rid of that restriction anymore.

 

[Nifft]

Wouldn't the paladin restriction apply in this case?

So you think Paladins and Monks are useless with Gestalt? That's an odd interpretation, since the designers specifically use Paladin//Sorcerer as an example Gestalt character.

-- N

 

[irdeggman]

So you think Paladins and Monks are useless with Gestalt? That's an odd interpretation, since the designers specifically use Paladin//Sorcerer as an example Gestalt character.

-- N

I never said that.

They must follow all restrictions (unless otherwise house-ruled) - that is what is written.

What this means is that they can continue down that same path, but if they cahange then they can't revert to a paladin.

So a paladin/sorcerer can continue as long as taking levels in paladin/sorcerer but if taking levels in another class they can no longer take paladin/sorcerer.

A paladin/sorcerer combo or a monk/? combo can be very usefull/powerful but they have to continue on in that path.

Now a barbarian/paladin would be forbidden as a combination since they have conflicting alignment requirements. Again unless house-ruled otherwise.

 

[Nifft]

They must follow all restrictions (unless otherwise house-ruled) - that is what is written.

What this means is that they can continue down that same path, but if they cahange then they can't revert to a paladin.

So a paladin/sorcerer can continue as long as taking levels in paladin/sorcerer but if taking levels in another class they can no longer take paladin/sorcerer.

Wait, so it would be illegal in your opinion to be a Paladin 20 // Sorcerer 6 / PrC 4 / Other PrC 10 ?

I can see applying the Paladin multi-classing rules to the "paladin side", but why would they apply to the "sorcerer side"?

Cheers, -- N

 

[irdeggman]

Wait, so it would be illegal in your opinion to be a Paladin 20 // Sorcerer 6 / PrC 4 / Other PrC 10 ?

I can see applying the Paladin multi-classing rules to the "paladin side", but why would they apply to the "sorcerer side"?

Cheers, -- N

It depends on how the character advanced. It also depends on the restrictions (or benefits of the prestige classes).


I think one of us is confusing how gestalt works.

Each level is a "new" class that combines the features (and restrictions) of the two composites.

It is not a fighter 3 and paladin 3, it is a fighter/paladin 3.

Now they break it down to be fighter 3/paladin 3 for ease of bookkeeping - but by pretty much every definition each level of gestalt is a level of a hybrid class. Think of it it terms that a 3rd level paladin/fighter gestalt is not a 6th level character - it has only 3 hit dice and those are the levels that count towards level based feats and ability score adjustments, etc.


Now if I am misreading the requirement that:

"Class and ability based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid's prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is." In that the paladin's and monks alignment and multiclass restrictions are not class based restrictions then by basis is faulty.