Gestalting

[Will]

The way we've dealt with it is that each 'side' is treated separately for things like 'can't stop being a paladin.'

 

[irdeggman]

The way we've dealt with it is that each 'side' is treated separately for things like 'can't stop being a paladin.'

So does that mean that at each level the character must take a level of paladin as part of his gestalt or that once he takes another level of gestalt he can't take anymore paladin combos?

 

[Will]

Each level the character has to take a level of paladin on one side. If the character ever has a level with two non-paladin classes, the normal restriction kicks in.

I mean, by the logic of 'take another class level ever,' you'd never be able to get past level 1 as a paladin.

(If I've misunderstood the position being forwarded, er, sorry.

 

[irdeggman]

Each level the character has to take a level of paladin on one side. If the character ever has a level with two non-paladin classes, the normal restriction kicks in.

I mean, by the logic of 'take another class level ever,' you'd never be able to get past level 1 as a paladin.

(If I've misunderstood the position being forwarded, er, sorry.

What I meant was that paladin/sorcerer was considered a single "class" - so if a paladin sorcerer took a level of paladin/wizard he would be taking a different class.

I think that either interpretation can work fine. One assumes that each gestalt combination is treated as a separate class while the other looks at the individual aspects( that is parts of the gestalt). IMO either one meets the paladin class restriction - but the application should be consistent across other combinations in the same game.

 

[Nifft]

"Class and ability based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid's prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is." In that the paladin's and monks alignment and multiclass restrictions are not class based restrictions then by basis is faulty.

What this means is that you cannot conflate class abilities.

For example, a Bard//Wizard would be able to cast Bard arcane spells in Light armor with no penalty, but would still suffer arcane spell failure when attempting to cast his Wizard spells.

If you have Druid and Fighter levels, you are proficient with lots of metal armor, but wearing it sacrifices your Druidic powers (you'd still keep all your Fighter feats and class features, ha ha ha, get it, Fighter class features, I crack me up). The Druid class features are restricted by metal armor; the "other side" is not restricted by metal armor.

There are some classes which place restrictions on the whole character: for example, a Paladin//Wizard can't use his Wizard spells to summon demons without suffering the appropriate penalties for an Evil act. Paladins, Monks, Druids, Bards and Barbarians similarly place an alignment restriction on the character, and thus you can't (normally) qualify for e.g. Bard//Paladin at the same time. (But that's more like a pair of mutually exclusive prerequisites.)

Does that help?

Cheers, -- N

 

[irdeggman]

What this means is that you cannot conflate class abilities.

For example, a Bard//Wizard would be able to cast Bard arcane spells in Light armor with no penalty, but would still suffer arcane spell failure when attempting to cast his Wizard spells.

If you have Druid and Fighter levels, you are proficient with lots of metal armor, but wearing it sacrifices your Druidic powers (you'd still keep all your Fighter feats and class features, ha ha ha, get it, Fighter class features, I crack me up). The Druid class features are restricted by metal armor; the "other side" is not restricted by metal armor.

There are some classes which place restrictions on the whole character: for example, a Paladin//Wizard can't use his Wizard spells to summon demons without suffering the appropriate penalties for an Evil act. Paladins, Monks, Druids, Bards and Barbarians similarly place an alignment restriction on the character, and thus you can't (normally) qualify for e.g. Bard//Paladin at the same time. (But that's more like a pair of mutually exclusive prerequisites.)

Does that help?

Cheers, -- N

So are you are saying that a paladin's code of honor is not a class restriction.

It is in the same place as the restriction on multiclassing.

A druid has no "mechanical" restriction on not casting druid spells or using druid abilities for 24 hrs after doing so other than a "religious" one. There is no arcane spell failure mechanic associated with it.

In the ex-druid section (similar to the ex-paladin) section it also contains restrictions on
not revering nature and teaching the druidic language.

The bard alignment restriction is not contained in the alignment section of the class description but instead it is in the ex-bard section (that same section that has those paladin restrictions we've been talking about).

Same with the barbarian (although the alignment sectiono does say that they are never lawful - but that is before the "Game Rule Information" section for the class.

So the question again is are those things in the ex-class section considered class restrictions? If so then they all should be, if not the discussion is moot.

 

[Nifft]

So are you are saying that a paladin's code of honor is not a class restriction.

Would you mind quoting the specific place where I say something that lead you to think this is what I meant?

A druid has no "mechanical" restriction on not casting druid spells or using druid abilities for 24 hrs after doing so other than a "religious" one. There is no arcane spell failure mechanic associated with it.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
[...]
A druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter.

That's mechanics right there.

The classes you listed each have an "Alignment:" line at the top of their respective pages. This line explicitly lists allowable alignments.

-- N

 

[irdeggman]

Would you mind quoting the specific place where I say something that lead you to think this is what I meant?

I was only asking the question since it appears that you do not feel the restriction on multiclassing (contained in the same location of the rules) does not apply.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm That's mechanics right there.

No that is a requirement - there is no "mechanics" involved. There is a difference, albeit it subtle between mechanics and requirements.

The classes you listed each have an "Alignment:" line at the top of their respective pages. This line explicitly lists allowable alignments.

-- N

True enough - my bad.

The ramifications of changing alignment are contained in the ex-class section though (and varies per class with alignment restrictions).

 

[Nifft]

I was only asking the question since it appears that you do not feel the restriction on multiclassing (contained in the same location of the rules) does not apply.

First off, questions end with one of these: "?" If you end a sentence with one of these: "." I'm likely to think you are asserting a statement, rather than asking a question.

Secondly, you have it wrong. As several others have said in this thread already, there's a reasonable way to look at Gestalt which includes the ability to sensibly apply things like the Paladin and Monk multiclassing restrictions.

No that is a requirement - there is no "mechanics" involved. There is a difference, albeit it subtle between mechanics and requirements.

If he does this specific thing, then that specific effect happens, for exactly 24 hours.

How is that not game mechanics?

Also, how is it a requirement? The Druid is free to wear metal armor, he just can't use his Druid abilities while doing so (or for a day after). Might be an acceptable trade-off in some situations, though I can't think of many off hand, outside of disguising himself as a non-Druid.

True enough - my bad.

One down.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Ace]

Im looking to make an gestalt character, with no LA, PHB and expanded psionics only and maybe some feats from other books....

Now i was thinking of going fighter and an psionic class to overcome spell failure.. But i am not really into the psionics yet, what is an good psionic class that can buff/heal himself?

Or does anyone have any other suggestions? I've never gestalted before so i dont know much about combining good mixtures..

Try Monk/Psion with the Carmeldine Monk feat -- this feat makes monk abilities work off INT --

this combo gives you all kinds of cool monk abilities, full caster power -- all good saves, AC through the roof -- basically you are an insanely defensive psion who in a pinch can melee and throw shuriken -- besides its fun to comnbo a monks high movement with up the walls and run behind them -- than trigger your belt of battle and DBZ your foes