Get pedantic on Feeblemind

[Artoomis]

If you were arguing the opposite side of this fence, I do not think you would think this.

This is an extremely weak argument due to the definition of Mass Spells in the PHB.

Actually, I absolutely agree that Mass Heal works. But it should have been on the list for the list to be truly complete. Once it has been shown the list is incomplete IN ANY WAY it opens the door to any analyzing how else it might be incomplete.

However, that's really neither here nor there to the "reverses instantaneoius spells" argument.

Let me pose a hypothetical. Let's suppose Feeblemind was written precisely as it is but was Permanent, rather than Instananeous.

Would Dispel Magic work?

Let's make it easier and further suppose they added a line that even Dispel Magic does not work.

What about M's Disjunction. Would that work?

If you say yes (as I think is likely), then the same argument hold for the spell as written and Break Enchantment.

 

[Artoomis]

If you were arguing the opposite side of this fence, I do not think you would think this.

This is an extremely weak argument due to the definition of Mass Spells in the PHB.

If I was on the opposite side of the fence I would admit that the list was incomplete, but then define how the inclusion of Mass Heal and non-PHB spells is implied.

That's a pretty strong argument, granted, but there is really no escaping that it is an argument over how much the list is allowed to be expanded. not whether it can be or not.

 

[glass]

Let me pose a hypothetical. Let's suppose Feeblemind was written precisely as it is but was Permanent, rather than Instananeous. Would Dispel Magic work? Let's make it easier and further suppose they added a line that even Dispel Magic does not work. What about M's Disjunction. Would that work?

Obviously, the answer is 'no' in both cases. Niether dispell magic nor disjunction are on the list, so neither work.

If you say yes (as I think is likely), then the same argument hold for the spell as written and Break Enchantment.

Exactly, the same argument holds, and both spells do not work for the same reason.


glass.

 

[Artoomis]

Obviously, the answer is 'no' in both cases. Niether dispell magic nor disjunction are on the list, so neither work.

Exactly, the same argument holds, and both spells do not work for the same reason.


glass.

Oh, wow! How many agree that, all other things being equal, if the spell was Permanent that M's Disjunction would not work?

Glass: I compliment you for your consistent approach.

 

[glass]

If I was on the opposite side of the fence I would admit that the list was incomplete, but then define how the inclusion of Mass Heal and non-PHB spells is implied.

That's a pretty strong argument, granted, but there is really no escaping that it is an argument over how much the list is allowed to be expanded. not whether it can be or not.

No, there is no implication going on, and no expansion:

For the puposes of what it removes, mass heal explicitly is heal, and heal explicitly is on the list. Therefore Mass Heal explicitly removes feeblemind, and the list in intact and complete.


glass.

 

[Artoomis]

No, there is no implication going on, and no expansion:

For the puposes of what it removes, mass heal explicitly is heal, and heal explicitly is on the list. Therefore Mass Heal explicitly removes feeblemind, and the list in intact and complete.


glass.

Heal is on the list. Mass Heal is not. Thats simple enough.

I agree that Mass Heal works because Heal is on the list, but, nonetheless, the list has been expanded to include Mass Heal which has opened the door, at least a crack, to other analyses of what else, perhaps, should be on the list but is not.

Mass Heal is not explicitly Heal, actually, it "functions like heal" - but is not the same spell, thus it is an expansion of the list, no matter how common-sensical, obvious and trivial it may be, it is still an expansion of the list.

Now a very fine argument can be made that this is the only permissible expansion other than supplemental material, but that's arguing the degree of non-exclusiveness for the list, not whether it is exclusive or not.

In any case:

I submit that, given the nature of Dispel Magic (and it's Greater cousin), M's Disjunction and Break Enchament, each of those is always applicable to spells that are within their scopes unless specifically prohibited, as opposed to not included on a list of remedies for the spell in question.

 

[PallidPatience]

Mass Heal "functions like heal", which is to say "does everything heal does", which, according to Feeblemind, includes removing the feeblemind state.

 

[Artoomis]

Mass Heal "functions like heal", which is to say "does everything heal does", which, according to Feeblemind, includes removing the feeblemind state.

Sure, I agree. That's why the list gets expanded to include Mass Heal.

 

[Deset Gled]

Sure, I agree. That's why the list gets expanded to include Mass Heal.

The list doesn't get expanded. The definition of Heal does.

 

[Felix]

That's why the list gets expanded to include Mass Heal.

Not "expanded". It's already there.