Get pedantic on Feeblemind

[gnfnrf]

If an effect (non-instantaneous) cannot be affacted by Dispel Magic, it says so specifcally.
If a curse cannot be removed by "Remove Curse" it says so specifically.
If a spell's non-instantaneous effects remain in a Antimagic Field, it says so specifically (generally, a instantaneous spell leaves behind a non-magical effect).

By precendent, if a spell meets all the criteria for Break Enchantment (that is, Feeblemind), thatn it must exclude Break Enchantment by name if the exclusion is truly valid.

Do any non-instantaneous effects (that presumably can be dispelled, since they don't mention it) but with other means of removal, use the "effect remains until xyz" wording?

For example, stoneskin doesn't say "stoneskin remains until the duration expires or it absorbs x damage", it says "Once the spell has prevented x damage, it is discharged."

I'm not trying to take the other side here, I just think that if there were another spell worded like Feeblemind, it would help to sort the situation out.

EDIT:

The closest I've found is Glitterdust. Glitterdust "cannot be removed." If BE doesn't work on feeblemind, than Dispel Magic doesn't work on Glitterdust, which seems a little wierder, but isn't the end of the world.

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gnfnrf

 

[Artoomis]

Do any non-instantaneous effects (that presumably can be dispelled, since they don't mention it) but with other means of removal, use the "effect remains until xyz" wording?

For example, stoneskin doesn't say "stoneskin remains until the duration expires or it absorbs x damage", it says "Once the spell has prevented x damage, it is discharged."

I'm not trying to take the other side here, I just think that if there were another spell worded like Feeblemind, it would help to sort the situation out.

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gnfnrf

As far as I know, no. Makes one wonder why they chose not to use the clear language contained in many other spells.

 

[Infiniti2000]

But the list is infiniti.

Good God, don't drag me into this mess.

 

[Artoomis]

Good God, don't drag me into this mess.

My apologies for any misperception. I did not say "Infinti2000" or even use upper case, so I clearly was talking about some OTHER "infiniti," right?

 

[Infiniti2000]

My apologies for any misperception. I did not say "Infinti2000" or even use upper case, so I clearly was talking about some OTHER "infiniti," right?

S'okay. I actually misquoted you on purpose for humor value.

 

[Artoomis]

S'okay. I actually misquoted you on purpose for humor value.

Of course. That's also why I responded. Things do get a little too serious from time to time.

 

[glass]

On the contrary: Many spells already do this, and do so with little or no confusion.

Such as?


glass.

 

[Artoomis]

Such as?


glass.

For starters:

Antmagic Field, Prismatic Wall, Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser, Sysmbol of Death, Geas, Lesser, Wall of Force, Forcecage, Geas/Quest

Note especially these lines from Geas, Lesser andGeas/Quest:

"A lesser geas (and all ability score penalties) can be ended by break enchantment, limited wish, remove curse, miracle, or wish. Dispel magic does not affect a lesser geas"

"A remove curse spell ends a geas/quest spell only if its caster level is at least two higher than your caster level. Break enchantment does not end a geas/quest, but limited wish, miracle, and wish do."

 

[gnfnrf]

Spells that apparently cannot be removed by Dispel Magic:

Sepia Snake Sigil (after triggered)

"If the target fails its save, it is engulfed in a shimmering amber field of force and immobilized until released, either at your command or when 1d4 days + one day per caster level have elapsed."

Protection From Energy (with resist energy as well)

"If a character is warded by protection from energy and resist energy, the protection spell absorbs damage until its power is exhausted."

Animal Shapes

"Recipients remain in the animal form until the spell expires or until you dismiss it for all recipients. In addition, an individual subject may choose to resume its normal form as a full-round action; doing so ends the spell for that subject alone."

Control Winds

"The new wind direction and strength persist until the spell ends or until you choose to alter your handiwork, which requires concentration."

Glitterdust (mentioned in edit above)

"All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades."


Now, many of these are silly. But I remind you, the wording in them is substantially the same as feeblemind.

Feeblemind

"The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind."

The point of all of this is to say that I believe the "until" construction is not intended to be strictly read. It is simply a way of stating means of removing the effect, not an exhaustive way. If you read it strictly in one spell, you have to read it strictly in many spells, and the game becomes less playable.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Artoomis]

Spells that apparently cannot be removed by Dispel Magic:

I assume you mant "...if you take the "until" clauses to be 100% exlusionary."

...The point of all of this is to say that I believe the "until" construction is not intended to be strictly read. It is simply a way of stating means of removing the effect, not an exhaustive way. If you read it strictly in one spell, you have to read it strictly in many spells, and the game becomes less playable.

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gnfnrf

Thanks. That's pretty much my point. Especially ..."If you read it strictly in one spell, you have to read it strictly in many spells, and the game becomes less playable"