D&D 5E Get The Vecna Dossier Free At D&D Beyond

Dausuul · Jun 10, 2022

dave2008 said:
It is not inherently terrible design. It just needs some reaction protection. It could be done fairly simply, WotC just chose not too. Probably because this is sufficient for 95%+ people who play the game.

Actually, I would regard the reliance on reactions as a feature rather than a bug (though it would go back to a bug if it became the norm for legendary monsters). It presents the PCs with an opening to shut off Vecna's defenses... but only if they figure it out in time, and cooperate to make use of it.

The challenge is surviving long enough to realize that Vecna is vulnerable this way, and then having the means to exploit that vulnerability. Since the party does not, in fact, get to peruse Vecna's statblock before battle, and since Vecna will probably engage them from some distance away, he's likely to maul them very badly before they figure out "We need to shut off his reactions!"

At that point, the party sorcerer charging madly into melee with Vecna himself to double-tap a cantrip, thereby opening him up to a kill, becomes the stuff of legend.

dave2008 · Jun 10, 2022

Thomas Rainsborough said:
wrt to your Quicken comment, from the stat block: Vecna can take up to three reactions per round but only one per turn.

So, if Vecna decides to use Dread Counterspell on the first SG, he stands there, and can't use DC on the 2nd SG.
If he decides to use Fell Rebuke, he does not counter the SG, and is not going anywhere.

Again, only for a particular build that can cast 2 spells in one turn. That is a very small minority of played characters.

MonsterEnvy · Jun 10, 2022

Made thread for Vs Vecna Simulations.

D&D 5E - Vs Vecna battle simulations.

There was some discourse on Vecna and how effective he is. So I am prepared to run some fights against him. My Basic plan is to you have people make four characters at levels 20, then 17, 15, 13, and 10. This will let us see how well they do against Vecna at all stages. I expect the top levels...

www.enworld.org

kapars · Jun 10, 2022

The real MVP cantrip here is Chill Touch. 120ft range and no 80 hp healing.

Edit: I also think the Iggwilv stat block murders this one in a one on one fight

Micah Sweet · Jun 10, 2022

The problem is it's not an option. Its all they give you.

dave2008 said:
I prefer compromise statblocks in general. This is not exactly what I am looking for, but it is much closer. You can run him without ever looking at his spell list and that is an option I like to have. The spell list is primarily for flavor and I am fine with that. However, for Vecna I would still want to give him access to more spells, even if just for flavor.

darjr · Jun 10, 2022

Micah Sweet said:
The problem is it's not an option. Its all they give you.

It’s an option. See the book of vile darkness, with it he can have any spell

Dausuul · Jun 10, 2022

kapars said:
I also think the Iggwilv stat block murders this one in a one on one fight

Really? Iggwilv seems singularly weak to Vecna. Her damage is all lightning and necrotic, and Vecna has resistance to both. She likes to toss around the charmed and frightened conditions, to which Vecna is immune. And her pack of hezrous can't touch Vecna at all--he is immune to every type of damage they can do. Meanwhile, Vecna's main attacks are DC 22 Con saves, and Iggwilv's Con save is a pathetic +4. Even with advantage, she's only going to make the save 28% of the time. Her three shots of Legendary Resistance will evaporate like a puddle in Death Valley.

She only has two things going for her that I can see. She's got wish once per day, and Fey Beguilement. But Vecna only needs to roll 7 or better to save against Fey Beguilement, and he's got five shots of Legendary Resistance to back him up any time he fails.

As for wish, that has to get past Vecna's Dread Counterspell. If he blows the roll, what can she do with it? Simulacrum maybe, duplicating either herself or Vecna? But a duplicate of Vecna would be missing two of his key abilities--it doesn't have Afterthought and it can't heal itself with Vile Teleport--and Vecna is pretty resistant to his own attacks. And a duplicate of Iggwilv would have no better options than the original.

Maybe, if she cast wish on the first round for simulacrum on herself, and Vecna failed his Dread Counterspell check, and then both of them blasted Vecna steadily with Fey Beguilement, she could wear down his LR and get him mind-controlled before he overwhelmed her with raw damage. But I'd still put my money on Vecna.

Micah Sweet · Jun 10, 2022

Thomas Rainsborough said:
Uh huh....Until Mr Sorcerer, Mr Wizard, Mr Artificer, and a host of specialized sub-classes attack and penetrate that AC 18 (like butter for even mid level chars), and administers Shocking Grasp, a cantrip....

Shocking Grasp:
Lightning springs from your hand to deliver a shock to a creature you try to touch. Make a melee spell attack against the target. You have advantage on the attack roll if the target is wearing armor made of metal. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 lightning damage, and it can't take reactions until the start of its next turn.

So tell me again about how removing LR's for Reactions is such a stunning move?

Yeah, the designers really put a lot of brainpower into this one.....How long did they playtest this?

What you're missing is, WotC's monster designs assume the players aren't using any sort of tactics. Intelligent fighting is a luxury feature, apparently.