Getting to 6 encounters in a day

[Oofta]

Sure, what I'm suggesting though is making decisions that both satisfy however someone may think of his or her character and the drive for more XP. It's possible. Easy even.



To be clear, I don't dismiss your opinion. I address the objections you're posting to try to justify your opinion. "I just don't like it" is something I can't argue. "I just don't like it because X, Y, and Z..." when X, Y and Z are, to me, objections that are easily resolved is something I can argue.

Your logic is Barry the Bard could say "let's go kill those guys right now because it will be fun" when the only reason for Barry to say that is because Barry's player wants more XP.

Lipstick, meet pig. In-world justification comes after decision. That's what I object to.

My logic would be that my character is concerned that if we don't take out those guys right now they may go get reinforcments. If my PC has no reason to believe that they will leave or get reinforcements before I can recover from the last fight(s) then I would take the time to recover. If my PC could do one encounter, recover completely, go on to the next fight there has to be some reason to not do that from the PCs perspective. Fortunately there are many ways of doing just that.

Horse first, then cart. In-world motivation first, then action.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

In a "6-8 encounters before a long rest" model, many encounters only exist to put pressure on character resources. From my own experience, you can do that without resorting to combat, through traps and natural hazards. When I plan for 6 encounters before a long rest, I'm inclined to use 2-3 combats (maybe one more if external aid is possible), 1-2 traps/natural hazards and think of something else to grind resources on the way. A small dungeon example would run like:

I think this comment is on the right track. Something that I feel gets overlooked in all these discussions about encounters per day is that not all encounters need to be about combat. The DM can make an encounter that is a trap/natural hazard, a social interaction, a puzzle, or even a skill challenge. Assign the encounter a CR and away you go. These things can all expend party resources in various ways.

That said, I don't worry too much about 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. Some days are more intense than others depending on the needs of the story.

 

[iserith]

Your logic is Barry the Bard could say "let's go kill those guys right now because it will be fun" when the only reason for Barry to say that is because Barry's player wants more XP.

Not if it's reasonable to establish that Barry the Bard might think that course of action is fun. If it's not reasonable, then you can establish something else that is consistent with Barry the Bard's established characterization. Perhaps he thinks it will lead to inspiration for a great song entitled The Battle of Barry the Bard.

Lipstick, meet pig. In-world justification comes after decision. That's what I object to.

I would say the justification happens alongside the decision and the process of figuring that out is exploration and development of the character. The player controls the character and determines what it thinks, does, or says after all. The characters don't control themselves. That would be frightening.

My logic would be that my character is concerned that if we don't take out those guys right now they may go get reinforcments. If my PC has no reason to believe that they will leave or get reinforcements before I can recover from the last fight(s) then I would take the time to recover. If my PC could do one encounter, recover completely, go on to the next fight there has to be some reason to not do that from the PCs perspective. Fortunately there are many ways of doing just that.

Horse first, then cart. In-world motivation first, then action.

You leave out the possibility that the character has some other motivation for attacking those guys right now. Perhaps as you say the character has no reason to believe reinforcements will not be an issue, but maybe the character is convinced of the significance of his or her destiny, and blind to his or her shortcomings and the risk of failure - so he or she decides attacking now is better than healing up and attacking later. There's always more than one plausible reason a character might do a thing. Fiction is great that way.

 

[Oofta]

Not if it's reasonable to establish that Barry the Bard might think that course of action is fun. If it's not reasonable, then you can establish something else that is consistent with Barry the Bard's established characterization. Perhaps he thinks it will lead to inspiration for a great song entitled The Battle of Barry the Bard.

But the only reason Barry would think it's "fun" is because the player is motivated by more XP. If the PC has motivation to do something anyway then a house rule granting additional XP is just an irrelevant distraction that has no justification.

I give up. We disagree. Have a good one.

 

[iserith]

But the only reason Barry would think it's "fun" is because the player is motivated by more XP. If the PC has motivation to do something anyway then a house rule granting additional XP is just an irrelevant distraction that has no justification.

Again, you leave out the possibility that it's reasonable to establish Barry finding such an action fun. Barry could be an Outlander with whose Ideal is earning glory in battle for himself and his clan. If the motivation of the character and the player are essentially the same as a result, I would say you're setting up the perfect situation for the player to emotionally identify with the character, feel the same tangible reward that Barry is feeling for living up to his Ideal, and therefore enhancing "immersion." It is thus not an "irrelevant distraction" at all, but a way to reinforce that immersion.

I give up. We disagree. Have a good one.

Fair enough. You too. The above is more for anyone on the fence about this matter.

 

[Satyrn]

Id be interested in how others incentivise pushing on . . .

Currently, I'm using an in-game incentive. The megadungeon's entrance level repopulates with demons and devils at an alarming rate. It essentially resets daily. And I roll for random encounters a lot - like, every fight might draw onlookers, every area might have loiterers, and then there are the wandering monsters.

If the players don't push on through it quickly they just wind up making no progress.

 

[iserith]

Currently, I'm using an in-game incentive. The megadungeon's entrance level repopulates with demons and devils at an alarming rate. It essentially resets daily. And I roll for random encounters a lot - like, every fight might draw onlookers, every area might have loiterers, and then there are the wandering monsters.

If the players don't push on through it quickly they just wind up making no progress.

That sounds really cool. What level PCs?

 

[Ratskinner]

As you note, 6 to 8.Going a few sessions before a long rest is not a problem. One of my games is also a 3 hour a week deal. We often go a few sessions before finding time for a long rest.

Generally, I would agree. However my current group has adult life attendence interference that really makes it difficult on the narrative to span a series of tightly-packed events across multiple sessions:

"There's no time to rest, comrades! We must press our attack against the fiendish Koalamen! Onward to the next Eucalyptus!

*pop*! "oh hi, Ranger. Um....good to see you again? Wait, was he with us this whole time? Also, has anyone seen the Barbarian? I swear he was right here a minute ago."

OTOH, I think people don't give enough credit to encounters with hordes of lower powered adversaries. IME, those drain a lot more party resources than they usually get credit for. Sure, no one's life is in jeopardy with one of them, but the fourth one seems to get them pretty well. They also go pretty quickly at table.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I think this comment is on the right track. Something that I feel gets overlooked in all these discussions about encounters per day is that not all encounters need to be about combat. The DM can make an encounter that is a trap/natural hazard, a social interaction, a puzzle, or even a skill challenge. Assign the encounter a CR and away you go. These things can all expend party resources in various ways.

Unless your trap is that a fireball IX spell goes off on the party, you'd be hard-pressed to have a non-combat encounter make an appreciable dent in party resources; even then, it's always possible that the party will find and remove (or evade) the trap, in which case they spend nothing on the encounter. The biggest resource that you need to work through every day is still Hit Points, and it's hard to lose those to most puzzles or social interactions.

The problem isn't having 6-8 encounters per day. The problem is having 6-8 encounters that each consume a meaningful portion of your daily resources.

 

[Satyrn]

That sounds really cool. What level PCs?

They're 3rd. Started at 1st.

The opening area is meant to be a sort of arena beneath the city where adventurers fight the monsters for sport, and are treated like pro athletes (I recently likened them to golfer's, like Tiger Woods playing a Major, then taking a month off to prep for the next Major). The demons and devils are actually engaged in their own sort of sport, an endless game of King of the Castle that's a ritualised continuation of the Blood War.

Most of the demons and devils are all CR 1 or less, and every encounter (even the set ones) are randomly determined so the players could face a cakewalk all day, or even suffer through rough odds around every corner. Then each day the King of the Castle (Boss monster!) is faced the daily challenger (another boss). Both are CR 3 - 6, and most often accompanied by a gang,

And again, all of this randomly determined when the players enter the area. Now my players haven't grokked this yet, but they can get me to generate any given day in advance - and learn some of the results - with Divination magic. Like, they could figure out which day the King of the Castle is a measly CR 3 and delve down that day, etc.


Anyway, this Arena area also serves as a sort of hub, with at least four (I've only sketched out 4 so far, is what I'm saying) deeper areas that repopulate at slower rates and are meant to be explored in different ways. For example, the underground river cavern is dotted with ruins, most of them designed to be investigated in a couple hours - the idea being that the party pushes through the Arena until they get to a ruin, where they take a short rest before exploring. Then take another short rest before trying to push back out through the Arena. That's the theory, anyway.

The party hasn't stopped trying to topple the King of the Castle, yet. It's like winning the Masters, after all.