D&D 5E Ghouls still not quite right in MM

[Neonchameleon]

The "save every round" mechanic is just an utter buzzkill and makes things that should be really-to-heart-stoppingly bad a minor-to-momentary [1 round] inconvenience.

1 round of paralysis should in itself be heartstopping. Long enough for another ghoul to tear your throat out. The other PCs are forced to adapt their tactics. Or are your ghouls being "nice" and the scavengers only attacking people who are on their feet? Any longer than that and the PC should end up dead.

On the other hand paralysed for the combat is sheer buzzkill. You might as well go away and get a drink - there's absolutely nothing you can do. You'll either be rolling up a new character or you won't. It's Russian Roulette as far as you are concerned. And rolling up a character in 5e is a pain.

 

[Nebulous]

The "save every round" mechanic is just an utter buzzkill and makes things that should be really-to-heart-stoppingly bad a minor-to-momentary [1 round] inconvenience.

You've been paralyzed by the ghoul...previously indicating that you were helpless as the rest of the ghoulish pack clawed at and piled on to eat you alive. Your companions had to act with some haste and purpose to get/protect/defend you from the ghouls all too ready to pounce upon the first thing that got paralyzed or dispel/heal you of the condition right away.

Now, you've get paralyzed by the ghoul. Your companions can say, "Duuuude. That sucks. Don't worry. It'll wear off next round...maybe two. I'll just keep doing my own thing."

When I get a 5e game going, "saves each round" is sooo getting houseruled right out the window...for anything, not just ghouls. But ghouls is a great example as to why.

Yeah, i'm thinking of adding a minimum amount of rounds you are paralyzed before your saves can even start. 2 or 3, then start the saves. Simple and makes a big difference.

 

[steeldragons]

Yeah, i'm thinking of adding a minimum amount of rounds you are paralyzed before your saves can even start. 2 or 3, then start the saves. Simple and makes a big difference.

I like that well enough. Simple. Gives me the flavor I like/wanted without having to completely erase/nullify the mechanic.

Nice job. Me like.

 

[Tormyr]

Maybe. The bite is only +2 though. What if the damage on bite were only 1d6+2? Or eved 1d4+2? I think a level 1 party should have some serious hesitation when it comes to fighting a ghoul...

The bite is only +2, but it only uses it after paralyzing victim so it has advantage. If you are worried about the ghouls not being tough enough, why not just use ghasts instead?

 

[Jester David]

As a DM it's also easy to say "You were paralyzed by more than one ghoul. Make the save with disadvantage."

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think anything that paralyzes is scary, and I think save each round is balanced. If you want more oomph from your ghouls just add more of them. Remember too that when a target is paralyzed any attacks are at adv - and any melee hits are auto crits. That's some serious damage if you've got one paralyzed PC attacked by say 3 ghouls.

I think like pretty much all lower CR monsters in 5e, if you add enough of them, they get scary. Even for higher level casters, there are only so many fireballs etc to go around each day.

 

[BigVanVader]

This reminds me of when I was playing a game with an inexperienced DM. It was 3.5, and I made a Half-Orc Cleric or Bard or something. We were an entire party of standard first level characters, and half of us weren't optimized. The DM threw 14 Ghouls at us, and didn't understand why we got murdered until half the table started throwing shoes at him.

It was hilarious.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

In a special Halloween session where I TPKed the party* I took out two 3rd level characters by dropping them into a pit with 5 ghouls. Once they get you paralyzed, any hit is two failed death saves, so you go down pretty quickly. The only reason the third character survived (with 0 hp) is that the spellcasters were blasting the ghouls from above and managed to take them out before the ghouls finished him off.

*I wasn't a jerk DM. This was the most likely expected outcome, so they woke up to discover it was a dream afterwards, and they hadn't expended any resources. I gave them half XP even though it didn't actually happen.

 

[Stormonu]

This reminds me of when I was playing a game with an inexperienced DM. It was 3.5, and I made a Half-Orc Cleric or Bard or something. We were an entire party of standard first level characters, and half of us weren't optimized. The DM threw 14 Ghouls at us, and didn't understand why we got murdered until half the table started throwing shoes at him.

It was hilarious.

I had a similar experience - my brother was DMing the Al-Qadim A thousand and one adventures set and we got lured into a trap with a bunch of ghouls (and one ghast). In the first round, over half the party was paralyzed. By the end of the second, I was the only one still standing (an elf enchanter). I spend the next dozen rounds or so playing fox and hounds with the ghouls & ghast. Finally the ghast caught me.

"It's too bad you guys didn't find the secret escape door out of the room," he told us after the fight, after also telling us by the encounter's description the ghouls were supposed to spend the first couple of rounds paralyzing and devouring the other NPCs in the room first - to give us a chance to search.

"Bro, my elf had a 2 in 6 chance of spotting secret doors just by passing by them"

"Oh?"

 

[BigVanVader]

I had a similar experience - my brother was DMing the Al-Qadim A thousand and one adventures set and we got lured into a trap with a bunch of ghouls (and one ghast). In the first round, over half the party was paralyzed. By the end of the second, I was the only one still standing (an elf enchanter). I spend the next dozen rounds or so playing fox and hounds with the ghouls & ghast. Finally the ghast caught me.

"It's too bad you guys didn't find the secret escape door out of the room," he told us after the fight, after also telling us by the encounter's description the ghouls were supposed to spend the first couple of rounds paralyzing and devouring the other NPCs in the room first - to give us a chance to search.

"Bro, my elf had a 2 in 6 chance of spotting secret doors just by passing by them"

"Oh?"

This is why you have to keep your DMs in line. They control the game world, but the players around the table control the actual world, which can smash repeatedly into his face at any moment.