TSR Giantlands

Status
Not open for further replies.

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
@Shroompunk Warlord

There was something innately instructive about being in a crowd of 17,000 and all chanting along with Zack de la Rocha, "Eff you, I won't you do what you tell me." If you had an ounce of self-reflection.

I sometimes wonder if the lessons learned that have gotten us to the point we are at (which is infinitely better than where we have been) are being discarded in the desire to sink to the slights of those who do not agree with us.* I am hopeful that we have more cases like Dwyane Wade and his family, who has shown that by public example and love (and in the face of backlash), we can continue to persuade more people in more recalcitrant communities that a shared humanity is all that matters; if sunlight is the best disinfectant, then exposure is the base ingredient of tolerance.

IME, it is a rare person indeed who changes because he is told he is a bad person. There are many people who change because they think they are good people, and want to do the right thing- they just need to understand what the right thing is.

And for what it's worth, Dinehart is a terrible, terrible person**, and what little I've seen of Giantlands wouldn't have been a good game in 1990, let alone today.


*And I will add, in saying this, that there has almost always been a plethora of approaches. Righteous anger toward injustice can manifest in many ways, from working hard within the system to change it, to boycotts, to non-violent protest, to those who go for more direct action.

**I keep joking that he is Florida Man, but Florida Man at least provides some comedic value. I'd rather read about someone walking up to the drive through, drunk and carrying a gator, than Dinehart's hateful and transphobic comments.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Oh please, what apology could these guys ever give that any of you would actually accept?

If they use thier own words - as Ernie has clumsily done twice now - you'll knit pick it & claim it's false.
He didn't specifically mention x. He didn't say y. He didn't phrase it like this. Or like that. "I would've phrased it like ______". He didn't follow this formula.... etc.
Because you can't accept that this is about as good as your going to get from this clod.

If the formula is followed?
Then you'll just write it off as reading a script.

And no matter what form an opology takes you wont believe they mean it.

So why is having an apology so important to any of you?
Apologies aren't difficult. Chances are, you learned them in kindergarten and you've made dozens of them since.

If I'm worried that my apology won't be accepted, it's probably a rubbish apology. I'm probably trying too hard to save face, or I don't really believe an apology is necessary and I'm just trying to placate someone. And that cliché "the best apology is changed behavior" is true: if I apologize without any intent of changing how I behaved, my apology is rubbish.

People are very good at spotting a rubbish apology. We learned that in kindergarten too.
 

Gradine

Final Form (she/they)
There's a lot of speculation about what would happen if there were a good apology and it remains speculation because they are so rare. That said, they do exist, and we don't really hear much about them because mostly everyone moves on from it. See: Harmon, Dan

I would suggest that is harder to be a terrible person than to be a good one; generally speaking you need to go out of your way to cause harm, even when it's unintentional. This hasn't always been true, and a lot of work has gone into making it hard to be terrible.

The point of the dumpster fire is not rehabilitation, as nice as it would be. The point is to serve as a lesson. Play nice or suffer consequences. Without consequences, there is no incentive to change.

And through all of that, it's still incredibly easy to crawl out of that fire, give a sincere apology, acknowledge that harm was done, and sit in a corner to think about what they've done for a bit.

This has, of course, been a net positive; as difficult and as dangerous as it is to be a Trans person, it is significantly better now than at any point in history. That isnt because we treated transphobes with kids gloves.
 

Gradine

Final Form (she/they)
Look, there is no such thing as ethical consumption under Capitalism. That's a given. I'm sure I've got numerous products in my home made by people who think even worse than Dinehart about people like me. It's inevitable. So there's got to be a line somewhere; it just so happens that the line many of us have drawn sits around "Don't show off your whole bigoted *ss in public".

To mix metaphors a bit, that ought to be a incredibly low bar to clear. And yet, here we are.
 


Remathilis

Legend
Oh please, what apology could these guys ever give that any of you would actually accept?

If they use thier own words - as Ernie has clumsily done twice now - you'll knit pick it & claim it's false.
He didn't specifically mention x. He didn't say y. He didn't phrase it like this. Or like that. "I would've phrased it like ______". He didn't follow this formula.... etc.
Because you can't accept that this is about as good as your going to get from this clod.

If the formula is followed?
Then you'll just write it off as reading a script.

And no matter what form an opology takes you wont believe they mean it.

So why is having an apology so important to any of you?
"I'm sorry you found out I was sleeping with your wife. She is so attractive, and she said you were never around, so it's not really my fault, you'd have done the same thing if you were in my shoes. Anyway, I was drunk and she started flirting with me, so it's really her fault. If she wasn't such a tease and if you were there for her, none of this would have happened."

There, did that apology satisfy you? Is it enough to keep me as your friend and save your marriage? If not, you begin to see why people feel thses apologies ring hollow...
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Look, there is no such thing as ethical consumption under Capitalism. That's a given. I'm sure I've got numerous products in my home made by people who think even worse than Dinehart about people like me. It's inevitable. So there's got to be a line somewhere; it just so happens that the line many of us have drawn sits around "Don't show off your whole bigoted *ss in public".

To mix metaphors a bit, that ought to be a incredibly low bar to clear. And yet, here we are.
This.
 

Riley

Legend
In my professional life, I long ago made a conscious decision to practice and offer unqualified, true apologies for my shortcomings and mistakes (which are inevitable, given my job depended upon making important decisions based upon limited information and probabililties).

It's an essential life skill, for being a responsible person.

These guys do not know how to apologize.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Kimchi on pizza??!! That’s… that’s… oddly intriguing, actually :) Definitely giving it a go.

In my experience, kimchi makes everything better. Well, except your breath.

As a general rule, I find that, "Say yes," is the best response to something new. At worst, you find out you don't like something. At best, you discover something new and amazing.
 

darjr

I crit!
In my professional life, I long ago made a conscious decision to practice and offer unqualified, true apologies for my shortcomings and mistakes (which are inevitable, given my job depended upon making important decisions based upon limited information and probabililties).

It's an essential life skill, for being a responsible person.

These guys do not know how to apologize.
I'm sure they see it as a weakness. Which is the actual weakness. An inability to take a good look at themselves and have the courage to try and understand and accept responsibility and that they could be wrong. It can be very painful and in their selfishness they won't take on the work.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Ok so I've been through a lot of pages of this thread WAITING for one of you, any of you, to explain much about Giantlands, and why it's boring/dumb. But we're all going over Ward and that idiot commentator and so on, yeah, like bigots gonna bigot, but I want the "Bigot with bad ideas" details.

But no-one has given out those juicy details! And I'm not finding them easily on the internet!
What little they've released has suggested that they don't actually have much that's new, and that what they do have isn't a particularly interesting way of reusing old stuff.

Maybe it'll turn out to be great, but so far all of their selling points have been "this thing that's been around forever, but with a different name."

Professions, Species, Spirit-Keeper. The renames for Class/Race/DM.
To be fair, lots of games rename class/race/DM. It's just that most other games have stuff other than old things renamed and don't rely on hokey gimmicks like wearing masks or whatever it is Giantlands is doing.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
What little they've released has suggested that they don't actually have much that's new, and that what they do have isn't a particularly interesting way of reusing old stuff.

Maybe it'll turn out to be great, but so far all of their selling points have been "this thing that's been around forever, but with a different name."


To be fair, lots of games rename class/race/DM. It's just that most other games have stuff other than old things renamed and don't rely on hokey gimmicks like wearing masks or whatever it is Giantlands is doing.
A lot of games do change the names. Very few try to present it as a marketing advertisement.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
To be fair, lots of games rename class/race/DM. It's just that most other games have stuff other than old things renamed and don't rely on hokey gimmicks like wearing masks or whatever it is Giantlands is doing.

That's not fair! They have all sorts of different things.

Like, um, it uses percentile dice "to hit."

I haven't seen an innovation like that since RuneQuest! Or, um, Boot Hill. Look, percentiles definitely weren't used in D&D. Much.
 
Last edited:



Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Oh please, what apology could these guys ever give that any of you would actually accept?

If they use thier own words - as Ernie has clumsily done twice now - you'll knit pick it & claim it's false.
He didn't specifically mention x. He didn't say y. He didn't phrase it like this. Or like that. "I would've phrased it like ______". He didn't follow this formula.... etc.
Because you can't accept that this is about as good as your going to get from this clod.

If the formula is followed?
Then you'll just write it off as reading a script.

And no matter what form an opology takes you wont believe they mean it.

So why is having an apology so important to any of you?
I have said with my own words that:

1) the apology should specifically mention the groups most directly attacked

2) it should at least appear to be sincere

That’s the basic formula. That’s what I’d expect. I would NOT fault them for following that script. It exists and endures because it works.

HOWEVER

An apology is just the first step. If it is followed by (in)action that makes the apology ring falsely, then it is perfectly acceptable to call them in their lack os sincerity.

The Catholic in me thinks of it this way: when I go to confession, I must admit to my wrongdoings AND do my penance to receive absolution. If I confess to my sins but do not do my penance, my confession was ineffectual and invalid.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I used to think ducks were all right, but I now live in a house with a little creek behind it, and so I've learned a lot about ducks. They are pure evil. And I don't just mean because they wake me up in the middle of the night with their annoyingly repetitive quacking.
I was speaking from a more culinary perspective.

1625963310842.png
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
A note on dogpiling: the Nietzchean admonition about hunting monsters applies; the aphorism about the power of dehumanizing words to lead to death applies; the parable about casting the first stone applies.

So it is always a good thing to keep in mind that, however vile we may find another human, they’re still human. And it is the truly rare human who is 100% good or evil.

That said, it’s apparent to me that those whose words touched off this powderkeg haven’t “gotten it” yet.
 
Last edited:

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
A note on dogpiling: the Nietzchean admonition about hunting monsters applies; the aphorism about the power of dehumanizing words to lead to death applies; the parable about casting the first stone applies.

So it is always a good thing to keep in mind that, however vile we may find another human, they’re still human. And it is the truly rare human who is 100% good or evil.

That said, it’s apparent to me that those whose words touched off this powderkeg haven’t “gotten it” yet.

Weirdly, I saw this posted this morning-


Which dovetails into some of the things you've been saying.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top