TSR TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally let it lapse, as TSR (2) confirms:

We have owned the TSR trademark since 2011. Last year, we missed a filing date, and another company registered it, though we are still using it in commerce. While we could win a lawsuit, we frankly don't have the money to litigate. So, we're licensing it back from them.

As a result, there are two companies now using the name TSR. You can tell when it's us because we're the only ones using the new logo.

They're opening a museum in Lake Geneva at the old TSR house, and we wish them success with it, it's important to celebrate the legacy that Gary Gygax created.

Ernie Gygax, formerly of TSR (1) under Gary Gygax, then working with Jayson Elliot as part of TSR (2), is one of the founders of of TSR (3), and confirmed in his (now infamous) interview --

The other TSR is a licensee because [Jayson Elliot] let it lapse. But he had absolutely ... love for the game and the products. There was no reason to say 'oh you've screwed up, oh it's all ours, ha ha ha ha!' Instead, Justin [LaNasa] came to him and said ... we love that you're doing Top Secret things, we have a much broader goal for the whole thing. But there's no reason for you to stop or even have any troubles. Justin said, I'll take care of the paperwork, you just give me $10 a year, and you put out all this love for old school gaming that you can. And we appreciate that you were there to try and pick up things, and you produced Gygax Magazine, for in its time that you're also working on a game that you love to play ... because Top Secret was Jayson's love, as a young man.

TSR (2), still run by Jayson Elliot, publishes Top Secret, and is not connected to TSR (3) other than now having to license it’s own name from them. TSR (3) has also registered the trademark to Star Frontiers, a game owned by and still currently sold by D&D-owner WotC.

In other news the GYGAX trademark appears to have lapsed.

UPDATE! TSR (2) has decided NOT to license its own name from TSR (3):

Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion.

 

[Maxperson]

A person writing about a moral code that clashed with their own would say so.

Not if the context was clearly about a game. He would probably have been better served to clarify, since so many ignore context and then accuse, but that's it. You can't reasonably conclude that he was giving his own personal moral opinions there.

 

[Dire Bare]

"Egg", being a term commonly used in the trans community, is off limits for bigots like Ernie.

EGG. Ernst Gary Gygax. A nickname for both Gygax Sr and Jr.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

"Egg", being a term commonly used in the trans community, is off limits for bigots like Ernie.

Ah, did not know that.
Agreed then.

 

[Dire Bare]

Exactly, it is almost as if people forget he was an evangelical Christian with an active stint on the JWs and apparently a firm believer in prosperity theology that was born back when eugenics was still considered sound science. He came from a different worldview, one that we don't (or might not) find particularly moral, but we can't expect somebody who was born and grown in a different environment to suddenly and retroactively change to suit our worldview. Specially somebody who is no longer around. People are flawed, we all are flawed. The best we can do is take the good and recognize the bad to learn from the past.
Even Junior here, most of us here don't seem to agree with his views or business practices. (For a given definition of business) It is morally fine to not buy from him (though I wasn't a customer of his in the first placr) But dragging his family and wanting his brother to come out and publicly dusown him, that is extreme.

Gary Gygax certainly held a different world view than many today. This world view is definitely outdated, and less common today than in Gary's youth. But . . . it's not like there weren't folks advocating, and loudly at that, for more equal treatment of women and minorities during Gary's youth. Gary's world view was gross back in the day, and remains gross today.

However, nobody is dragging Ernie's family through the mud or expecting Luke Gygax to publicly disown him . . . at least not in this thread. Plenty of folks are comparing Ernie's gross statements to those of his father, which is fair.

 

[Gradine]

EGG. Ernst Gary Gygax. A nickname for both Gygax Sr and Jr.

I'm aware. Point still stands

 

[Sithlord]

He's also professional. I understand he had a private conversation with Ernie and don't expect him to publicly comment other than what he already said regarding him or GaryCon not being involved with the new TSR

Which is what I'd expect from a LT Col in the army. We military types tend to want to keep personal grievances with each other private.

I would have full confidence in Luke taking over a business because he's got experience dealing with people, adversity, discipline, and leadership.

But we didn't get Luke. We got Ernie taking over. Maybe Ernie is a good guy who is just easily swayed. Dunno. Doesn't matter. He has a poor track record with projects and woeful PR.

I love jim wards work and want this to be great. I really wish Luke was running this. But I hope Ernie does well. Many people in business fail several times before they succeed. I Hope Ernie is one of them.

 

[OakenHart]

Why would he write the game and paladins so that killing orc babies would be considered good? Maybe if he was writing on Warhammer for GW I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't endorsing this kind of behaviour. But as far as I can tell, Gygax did not intend to satirize or condemn this kind of murderhoboism My read of it is that he's being completely earnest (heh).

So while there might be room to argue that he's not outright endorsing the views of the Lawful Good paladin in his post, he's not denouncing them either. So why would he write such a universe where this behaviour could be considered any kind of good?

Also, Gygax was a conservative right-wing christian member of the American Libertarian Party, so forgive me if I can't help but be concerned about any of his thoughts on Native Americans, to put it lightly.

I obviously don't truly know Gary Gygax Sr's true standing on this, and I'm aware of the very troubling views we know he did hold, but I've known a few people who made similar arguments in-game regarding moral relativism to the society they are part of (and specifically the Lawful Good argument, and without any knowledge of this example from Gygax) and they do not hold that viewpoint to actually be true in their own lives. I think it really depends on how much weight you put onto Alignment in-game as an absolute.

It's very possible Gygax was discussing from this same angle. I wouldn't necessarily give the benefit of the doubt here and say it's more than likely the case, because again his other viewpoints we know he held are sort of gross, but I'm just saying he wouldn't be the only one to think of Alignment in-game in this manner without necessarily reflecting personal beliefs if that is where he was coming from.

I personally think in-game that moral relativism goes straight out the window when you have deities with listed alignment reflecting a pretty classic view of good/evil, and basically set what is considered such.

 

[Parmandur]

I obviously don't truly know Gary Gygax Sr's true standing on this, and I'm aware of the very troubling views we know he did hold, but I've known a few people who made similar arguments in-game regarding moral relativism to the society they are part of (and specifically the Lawful Good argument, and without any knowledge of this example from Gygax) and they do not hold that viewpoint to actually be true in their own lives. I think it really depends on how much weight you put onto Alignment in-game as an absolute.

It's very possible Gygax was discussing from this same angle. I wouldn't necessarily give the benefit of the doubt here and say it's more than likely the case, because again his other viewpoints we know he held are sort of gross, but I'm just saying he wouldn't be the only one to think of Alignment in-game in this manner without necessarily reflecting personal beliefs.

I personally think in-game that moral relativism goes straight out the window when you have deities with listed alignment reflecting a pretty classic view of good/evil, and basically set what is considered such.

The 1E books make it pretty clear that Alignment is absolute and cosmically objective in Dndlandia. Which is metaphysically absurd when Law/Chaos and Good/Evil are on separate dimensions.

Despite the absurdity from a metaphysical angle, it does work well as a shorthand i.prov acting prompt for NPCs.

 

[OakenHart]

The 1E books make it pretty clear that Alignment is absolute and cosmically objective in Dndlandia. Which is metaphysically absurd when Law/Chaos and Good/Evil are on separate dimensions.

Despite the absurdity from a metaphysical angle, it does work well as a shorthand i.prov acting prompt for NPCs.

Ah I see, thanks for that clarification! I actually started with 2e and haven't read through the 1e books thoroughly.

 

[Gradine]

Basically everyone is doubling down on this at this point. Jim Ward is retweeting alt-right "its the wokescolds' fault!" videos.

Other than maybe Larry Elmore, everyone else involved has decided to back bigotry and transphobia. All are culpable.

Supporting these people, products, businesses, is enabling this element in our hobby. It's not okay.