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TSR TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally...

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally let it lapse, as TSR (2) confirms:

We have owned the TSR trademark since 2011. Last year, we missed a filing date, and another company registered it, though we are still using it in commerce. While we could win a lawsuit, we frankly don't have the money to litigate. So, we're licensing it back from them.

As a result, there are two companies now using the name TSR. You can tell when it's us because we're the only ones using the new logo.

They're opening a museum in Lake Geneva at the old TSR house, and we wish them success with it, it's important to celebrate the legacy that Gary Gygax created.


Ernie Gygax, formerly of TSR (1) under Gary Gygax, then working with Jayson Elliot as part of TSR (2), is one of the founders of of TSR (3), and confirmed in his (now infamous) interview --

The other TSR is a licensee because [Jayson Elliot] let it lapse. But he had absolutely ... love for the game and the products. There was no reason to say 'oh you've screwed up, oh it's all ours, ha ha ha ha!' Instead, Justin [LaNasa] came to him and said ... we love that you're doing Top Secret things, we have a much broader goal for the whole thing. But there's no reason for you to stop or even have any troubles. Justin said, I'll take care of the paperwork, you just give me $10 a year, and you put out all this love for old school gaming that you can. And we appreciate that you were there to try and pick up things, and you produced Gygax Magazine, for in its time that you're also working on a game that you love to play ... because Top Secret was Jayson's love, as a young man.


TSR (2), still run by Jayson Elliot, publishes Top Secret, and is not connected to TSR (3) other than now having to license it’s own name from them. TSR (3) has also registered the trademark to Star Frontiers, a game owned by and still currently sold by D&D-owner WotC.

In other news the GYGAX trademark appears to have lapsed.


tsr2.png

UPDATE! TSR (2) has decided NOT to license its own name from TSR (3):

Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Not if the context was clearly about a game.

With respect... that's wishful thinking. You may want folks to behave that way, but.... they just don't. And this goes both ways.

Readers will read into things, unless you give them full context otherwise. They WILL NOT read and think like they are from the planet Vulcan. They WILL NOT assume a strict wall between an author and their work. And that's because...

Writers generally DO NOT keep a strict wall between their own ideas and their work. We are, in fact, told that writers "write what they know" and "put themselves into their work", which denies such dissociation as you want us to assume. If, as an author, you have managed to write a work highly different from your personal morals and ethics, you really need to tell the readers that, because that would be an unusual thing.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
On a related note, I just want to say I don't really judge someone too harshly based on what they said years or decades ago. Unless it was really awful, chances are I'm missing context and there is a good chance they aren't like that now. Lord knows I made plenty of mistakes and said really awful things when I was young.

No, what I really look for is how they react once learning how their behavior has been problematic. We know better, be better. Right?

If someone has learned and grown in 10, 20 years, I think they deserve to be judged by who they are now. If they haven't? Well, that's a shame. We all can learn to be better. It's a continuing process.

So I'd caution against using something someone said a decade ago and applying that to judgement now. Not saying that's happened here, but it had happened in other social media. Tim Kask has been included in the bucket of sexist bigots, but anyone who knows Tim knows he's nothing like that.

If there is an old tweet or comment brought up from years ago, I think it's preferable to just ask that person how they feel about it now.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
So "a reasonable person would virtue signal whenever they discuss fictional ethics or morals"?
Mod Note:

From: The terms and rules of EN World: "You MAY NOT ... use pejorative terms and buzzwords or dogwhistles including but not limited to "social justice warrior", "political correctness", "virtue signalling", and "cancel culture" to dismiss the opinions of those you disagree with..."

Everyone who is taking part in the thread should familiarize themselves with the rules. Claims of ignorance will not be seen as an excuse.
 


GreyLord

Legend
Also, Gygax was a conservative, right-wing Christian member of the American Libertarian Party, so forgive me if I can't help but be concerned about any of his thoughts on Native Americans, to put it lightly.
BEFORE people start attributing Gary Gygax with saying things he never did...and acting in ways he did not...which I have seen done to others in this forum....

From what I recall (from over 10 years ago now) Mr. Gygax WAS willing to change his views with the times and DID change his views with the times.

Near the end of his life, if I recall, he was no longer a practicing JW (and in fact, I do not think he even acknowledged being a part of them anymore) and had started attending a Unitarian church (not sure which one, universalist Unitarian is the one I think comes to mind).

It had been over 20 years since he had been involved with the creation of AD&D and it is very possible he would have created something very different (though perhaps more similar to OD&D) at that time if he actually had control of the game and it's creation.

From all appearances that I've seen and heard, in the late aughts he was a very accepting man of others. He tried to answer others questions and gave them time at conventions and other locales when approached by D&D players, fans, and aficionados.

AS for his politics...I don't think that is really pertinent here and have no desire to really discuss it anymore than to address this remark...but there are MANY different types of people as Libertarians...but most of the time they are for less goverment though more liberal economic policies...thus I think he probably would have adapted rather easily to the modern climate of the United States and it's current morales.

We may not know for sure because he has passed away, but this beginning where people it appears there is a spark to try to start to trying to make him appear as something other than what he was is concerning.

Edit PS: There MUST be those on this site, fans or others who encountered him at Cons or elsewhere, that can vouch that he was a very pleasant guy normally with their interactions with him regardless of who they were.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
So "a reasonable person would virtue signal whenever they discuss fictional ethics or morals"?
One can create a setting that uses bigoted tropes without actually being a bigot. In that case, you should probably say "In the game world I created and am selling, people are sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic/etc. This does not reflect my actual beliefs; in real life, I do not subscribe to these bigoted beliefs."
 

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