TSR Giantlands

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Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
So "go look it up yourself"?
I listed pretty much everything known about GiantLands in my post in this thread. Except that it's a postapocalyptic fantasy (They claim the first one) in which players are cleaning up the polluting messes of people from the previous "Age". And it's set in the "5th Age" but they make sure to note it's 1e.

Gosh. I wonder if 5th Age has any entirely hamfisted other meaning...?
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
The project itself could have been somewhat interesting if:

  • Some years ago: now it just seems like a throwback to the dullest element of old-school games.
  • Published by another company: I know this was created on command by the aberrant mind sorcerers designers at TSR3, but in the hands of a sensible partner it could have been a moderate success.
  • A simple TTRPG: the whole LARPing and Theme park is just...useless.
  • Jim Ward was helped by younger content creators: creating a product then going on interview to speak about ''the goo' ol' days'' instead of your product with polemic trolls is not the way to do things.

but as presented? No. Its a sad sad swan song for Drawmij.
 

Dessert Nomad

Adventurer
The claims he's been making about the game sound overblown to the point of desperation. Saying in 2021 that it's the first post-apocalyptic fantasy RPG ever is just bizarre; there are lots of well-known PA fantasy RPGs from the early 90s (from the other thread Dark Sun, Earthdawn, arguably Rifts) and I'm sure there are more from the 80s. I mean, Vance's Dying Earth series from the 1950s was listed as an inspiration for AD&D. Similarly, talking about a system that uses armor class, to-hit rolls, and an attack bonus that progresses as you level as completely new and fresh because you use percentile dice instead of a D20 just hurts.

Spending a lot of effort making and defending really weak or spurious claims makes the game look much worse to me than if he didn't throw the overblown stuff into the conversation. I wouldn't play 5e if I minded rolling to-hit vs AC, and I don't expect every RPG to create a new genre, so there's no need to try to dress up familiar elements as innovative.
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
The claims he's been making about the game sound overblown to the point of desperation.

Given Jim Ward was responsible for, among other things, Metamorphosis Alpha (the first, or arguably the first, sci-fi TTRGP), Gamma World (the most well-known post-apocalyptic TTRPG), D&D 2e, and was the senior figure at TSR during Dark Sun, I don't know if its desperation.

Before people continue to pile on, I will remind them that you never know, and link to these posts from 2010:


Age is never an excuse for bad actions, but getting old does, indeed, suck.
 

Dessert Nomad

Adventurer
Given Jim Ward was responsible for, among other things, Metamorphosis Alpha (the first, or arguably the first, sci-fi TTRGP), Gamma World (the most well-known post-apocalyptic TTRPG), D&D 2e, and was the senior figure at TSR during Dark Sun, I don't know if its desperation.

This heightens the appearance of desperation to me, since it makes it clear that he should know better as he's been involved with the overall genre to a large extent. Making a false claim about how innovative the game is, then defending it based on weird semantic arguments (like 'Dark Sun is science fiction, not fantasy') is a good sign to me that the game lacks any real innovation. Similarly, trying to paint a game as 'innovative' when it would better be described as 'familiar' is also a sign that the game doesn't stand on it's own merits and instead needs to be hyped up.

Before people continue to pile on, I will remind them that you never know, and link to these posts from 2010:

I fail to see how this is relevant to the thread - we're discussing the giantlands game, not Jim Ward's health a decade ago. I don't think 'if someone gets sick, you're not allowed to criticize their game or their statements' is a reasonable position, but that seems to be what you're doing. I'll also note that you're the one making this thread about Jim Ward personally - I commented only on the game and his statements about the game.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
This heightens the appearance of desperation to me, since it makes it clear that he should know better as he's been involved with the overall genre to a large extent. Making a false claim about how innovative the game is, then defending it based on weird semantic arguments (like 'Dark Sun is science fiction, not fantasy') is a good sign to me that the game lacks any real innovation. Similarly, trying to paint a game as 'innovative' when it would better be described as 'familiar' is also a sign that the game doesn't stand on it's own merits and instead needs to be hyped up.

I fail to see how this is relevant to the thread - we're discussing the giantlands game, not Jim Ward's health a decade ago. I don't think 'if someone gets sick, you're not allowed to criticize their game or their statements' is a reasonable position, but that seems to be what you're doing. I'll also note that you're the one making this thread about Jim Ward personally - I commented only on the game and his statements about the game.
Couple things worth noting:

1) Jim Ward claims that Dark Sun is a "Sci Fi" setting rather than Postapocalyptic Fantasy... which is patently ridiculous when GiantLands involves high tech and magic as their claim to the title.

2) Jim Ward having an incurable neurological disease may indicate a cognitive break or decline in which case we're giving a person with a physiological impairment a hard time for being impaired.

Though if that were the issue, the Dark Sun Sci Fi defense makes it ring pretty hollow since he has enough faculties to defend his position on a further spurious claim.
 


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