Giants: How big should they be in an a Fantasy RPG?

[JoeGKushner]

I actually think way too many metal minis had their feet spread wide apart*. I think that screws with basing conventions more often than the actual sizes of figures. Heck one good thing to come out on mini companies making their own wargames is that those minis tend to fit better onto appropriate sized bases without busting and re-sculpting limbs.

*this one takes the cake
http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/GSMC/Reserve/Frost Giant-Front.JPG

But at the same time, if you're not careful and do too much standing up, all of your non-humanoid races start looking like humanoids such as the various dragons coming out of the WoTC miniature piles.

And that's a nice paint job on the old Grendaier frost giant.

 

[frankthedm]

But at the same time, if you're not careful and do too much standing up, all of your non-humanoid races start looking like humanoids such as the various dragons coming out of the WoTC miniature piles.

I agree with you on dragons. Dragons definitely should be on all fours, one claw raised or in-flight. I also like cavalry bases and facing rules when it comes to dragons.

And that's a nice paint job on the old Grendaier frost giant.

Yes it is, it was the first image of that fig I found in google.

 

[monboesen]

I definately don't want giants bigger. In fact I would like monsters to be smaller and only the most extreme going beyond size large.

This is due to the already mentioned problem of "how do you actually kill such a large creature with what in relative size is a toothpick" and the related other problem "how do you really survive even one hit from a creature with a mass and strenght of several magnitudes larger than yours".

Just look at those fire giants in the picture linked in the first post. One swing of those weapons that connect and you should be a goner. Even if you are not cut in half the impact will kill you right away (looks like the damn things bicep weighs more than most humans).

Therefore I prefer monsters of medium and large sizes and no bigger.

 

[zypherillius]

They're fine as-is for my tastes. Large runs the gamut from barely-large (ogres) to nearly-huge (giants), much in the same way medium has its own range, dwarves to goliaths.

As it stands, giants hit hard. Go toe to toe with one and you're in deep kimchee. Last thing we need is them getting any stronger, heh.

thats all wed need, a <insert name giant> with a 15 foot reach

 

[frankthedm]

thats all wed need, a <insert name giant> with a 15 foot reach

Shoot the thing while you go for cover using shot on the run. Use your mobility! Tumble on in there! The Enlarged fighter weilds his reach weapon. You have plenty of ways to fight the foe, use them!

Anyhow, someone requested a Babe?

All these giants, and not one giant blue ox to be found in the MM...

Big blue ox
[sblock=Big blue ox] Size/Type: Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 16d8+137 (217 hp) 209 HP if PCs Roll for HP as per RAW after level 1
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +11 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+30
Attack: Gore +20 melee (3d8+15 19-20 x 2 crit)
Full Attack: Gore +20 melee (3d8+15 19-20 x 2 crit)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Powerful charge, trample 2d12+15
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +9, Will 8
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 9, Con 25, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Listen +13, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Iron will, Improved toughness, improved natural attack [horns] Improved critical[ horns] Weapon focus.
Environment: North American wilderness
Organization: Solitary or with Paul
Challenge Rating: 10 {Changed from triceratops’s 9 for raising to high int animal and better feat selection]
Treasure: See myths
Alignment: See myths
Advancement: 17-32 HD (Huge); 33-48 HD (Gargantuan)
Combat
Powerful Charge (Ex)
When Babe, the big blue ox charges, its gore attack deals 6d8+20 points of damage, the threat range remains the same, 19-20 x2.
Trample (Ex)
Reflex half DC 28. The save DC is Strength-based.[/Sblock]

 

[Sejs]

Shoot the thing while you go for cover using shot on the run. Use your mobility! Tumble on in there! The Enlarged fighter weilds his reach weapon. You have plenty of ways to fight the foe, use them!

Adding on to the list: Tower Shield. Assume cover and move on in.


Nice Babe, by the way.

 

[Christian]

Adding on to the list: Tower Shield. Assume cover and move on in.

Yeah, but you can't attack on the turn you use the TS for total cover. Then, on its turn, the giant moves back 10-15' and sunders your tower shield. You won't even get an AoO, because you didn't threaten when the movement was made ...

(OK, technically that doesn't work, because a sunder attack is a type of attack on the wielder of the shield/weapon being sundered, and you can't make an attack against an opponent who has total cover relative to you. All hail the invincible tower shield! )

 

[catsclaw227]

OK, technically that doesn't work, because a sunder attack is a type of attack on the wielder of the shield/weapon being sundered, and you can't make an attack against an opponent who has total cover relative to you. All hail the invincible tower shield!

OK.. off topic here a moment... I read this one other time and prayed to the RPG gods that this got errata'd. Does anyone know about this? You can't sunder a huge shield sitting in front of you because you can't make the attack against the wielder? This is like some twisted Escher rule.

Back on topic. The pics in the OP do suggest that the giants are bigger in the mind's eye of the artists, though there have been some good points about keeping the giants at Large. I might have a giant BBEG be an advanced one, but otherwise keep the general population at Large.

 

[frankthedm]

Adding on to the list: Tower Shield. Assume cover and move on in.


Nice Babe, by the way.

Thank you, here is another...

[Sblock]Big Bad blue ox
Size/Type: Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 32d8 +256 [416 HP]
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +11 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +24/+42
Attack: Gore +32 melee (2d8+15 19-20 x 2 crit)
Full Attack: Gore +32 melee (2d8+15 19-20 x 2 crit)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Powerful charge, trample 2d12+15
Special Qualities: Fast heal 3, Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +26, Ref +19, Will +17
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 12***, Con 26*, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Listen +19, Spot +18
Feats: Iron will[1], Weapon focus[3]. Power Attack[6], Cleave[[8] Improved critical[ gore][12] Combat reflexes[15] Great cleave[18], Epic will [21], Overwhelming critical [+1d6 damage on a crit][24], Devastating critical[27] gore critical hit kills if DC 36 fort save, Fast heal 3[30]
Environment: North American wilderness
Organization: Solitary or with Paul
Challenge Rating: 15.333 rounded up to 16 maybe higher
Treasure: See myths
Alignment: See myths
Advancement: 33-48 HD (Gargantuan)
Combat

Powerful Charge (Ex)
When Babe, the big bad blue ox charges, its gore attack deals 4d8+20 points of damage, the threat range remains the same, 19-20 x2.

Overwhelming and devastating critical (Ex)
When Babe, critically hits a foe with his gore, the critical hit deals an additional 1d6 damage and kills the victim if DC 36 fort save is failed.

Trample (Ex)
Reflex half DC 36. The save DC is Strength-based.[/Sblock]

 

[Christian]

OK.. off topic here a moment... I read this one other time and prayed to the RPG gods that this got errata'd.

Geez, I was just making a joke. Some things are too obvious to require errata, aren't they?