Giants: How big should they be in an a Fantasy RPG?

[Desdichado]

I doubt I am the only one who feels this way, a few times I have noticed D&D artists drawing giants as much larger than the MM calls for…
http://www.waynereynolds.com/Misc1A/8.jpg
http://www.waynereynolds.com/Misc1A/12.jpg

Well, I should point out that those two pictures are NOT in his D&D gallery, but in his fantasy gallery, so that's not a compelling argument. Technically I suppose you can't say for sure that those are D&D fire and frost giants.

Then again, I don't know who commissioned those pieces. They might have been third party d20 stuff.

 

[Klaus]

Hey, I totally forgot about this thread when I made my giant vs. sidhe painting:

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

It always bugged me that ogres and hill giants were the same size. Giants should be giant! I also feel that dragons should be bigger. Anything smaller than Huge should be a baby.

If you look at the dimensions given dragons are oversized for their mechanical size categories. For example "Large" true dragons are actually 31ft long. They're actually pushing the top end of Huge for size. Thus I have adjusted all dragons one size category upward to account for this.

And as far as giants go I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't think a lot of people realize just how big 12ft or 15ft actually is due to the lack of anything to compare themselves against for scale. But on the other hand I treat giants somewhat differently. I pull 4 hit dice from the top to bring their HP back more in line with earlier editions. The MM1 large giants as written I basically interpret as "teenage" giants who don't have their full growth, I advance them by HD up into Huge where appropriate.

 

[Hussar]

Honestly, the biggest problem with going to huge giants is mapping. A 3x3 base just eats up SO much room. Four or five huge creatures in the same room means that the room has to be immense. This leads to really, really boring maps where you have vast swaths of empty space.

 

[sniffles]

Here's an interesting bit of experience. At GenCon, they had a "life size" statue of a troll. As near as I can tell it was built to the same dimensions as in the MM, but standing next to it, it felt BIG.

You don't realize how big a humanoid nine feet tall is until it's towering over you. Those hands looked like they could wrap clear around my head like a baseball, and those fangs looked like they would hardly slow down tearing my flesh. I felt like a toddler standing next to it.

After being next to that troll, I am fully prepared to call a guy ten feet tall a giant.

Precisely!

I have an ongoing disagreement with a friend of mine who really likes giants to be enormous - 30 ft. tall or more. He likes his dragons hundreds of feet long. But there's a point at which for me not only does that strain my suspension of disbelief, as I said way back on page one, but it also means that they're just too overwhelmingly large to even be a challenge for an adventuring group.

A challenge should be something that you have some hope of winning, however small that hope is. Fighting a 50' giant is hopeless. He could flick you into a mountainside like you'd flick a booger off your fingertip.

 

[Klaus]

Honestly, the biggest problem with going to huge giants is mapping. A 3x3 base just eats up SO much room. Four or five huge creatures in the same room means that the room has to be immense. This leads to really, really boring maps where you have vast swaths of empty space.

Not necessarily. If the PCs are in the giant's lair, there are countless common implements that are HUGE, so a pair of boots lying on the floor may provide cover/concealment, and require a move action to bypass (like a fallen log), etc, etc.

Think of Mickey, Goofy and Donald climbing the giant beanstalk to get the Golden Harp.

 

[Psion]

There's a template in Advanced Bestiary called Jotunblood, for the Huge effect you're describing.

I was just swinging by to mention that one.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Honestly, the biggest problem with going to huge giants is mapping. A 3x3 base just eats up SO much room. Four or five huge creatures in the same room means that the room has to be immense. This leads to really, really boring maps where you have vast swaths of empty space.

You could also just change your scale in giant-prone areas to have one square equal 15'. Treat the giants as medium and the PCs as Tiny.

DS

 

[TheAuldGrump]

There's a template in Advanced Bestiary called Jotunblood, for the Huge effect you're describing.

My favorite template in the whole book. I like what was done with Hill giants in particular.

The Auld Grump

 

[Hussar]

You could also just change your scale in giant-prone areas to have one square equal 15'. Treat the giants as medium and the PCs as Tiny.

DS

That's WAY too much of a pain in the butt. The game is based on a particular scale and messing with that scale just for one creature type is a bad idea IMO.

As far as boots and stuff to make the room more tactically interesting, that's not really my point. 4 Huge creatures need rooms about 60x60 (12x12) squares to be able to have enough room for 4-6 PC's and the creatures. At a minimum, you cannot go below 30x30. That means that your battle map and your tabletop better be pretty darn big to handle combats.

It's the physical issues that become a problem. It's fine for dragons and a few other creatures because most huge and bigger creatures aren't fighting in groups. But, a group of fire giants isn't all that out of left field. It's a pretty reasonable encounter. A dungeon with, say, 16 fire giants, would need to be extremely big - all corridors are 15 feet wide, all rooms are massive.

The cartography would have an awful lot of blank space for something like that. All IMO of course.