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D&D 5E Giving the arcane gish an identity.

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
Spell list looks good to me.
(y)
What does this fighting style do ?
The same thing as Divine Warrior that Paladins take (from Tasha's) and the Druidic Warrior that Rangers can take (from Tasha's). Arcane Warrior very specifically allows you to learn two cantrips from the Wizard spell list, have them count as Arcknight spells for you, and be able to swap out one of them with another Wizard cantrip on a level up.

The rest of their Fighting Style options are Defense, Dueling, Two-Weapon Fighting, Great Weapon Fighting, Thrown Weapon Fighting, Interception, and Blind Fighting.

Then, at level 10, I give them an additional benefit (called your "Arcane Fighting Style") based on what fighting style they chose at level 2, which merges arcane magic with their fighting style. For example, Arcane Warrior lets you replace an attack from the Attack action with a cantrip, Blind Fighting gives you a 10 foot range of seeing into the Ethereal Plane, Thrown Weapon Fighting lets you summon back your thrown weapon after you throw it, Great Weapon Fighting lets you reroll 1s and 2s from your Spell Strike damage dice once (I'm considering putting a limiter on the amount of dice you can reroll from the Spell Strike damage, though). It was just a cool idea that I had been brainstorming, making an Arcane Gish class be able to merge spell and sword in unique and awesome ways.
 

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TheOneGargoyle

Explorer
I think the "Psychic Warrior" is definitely something this class could cover, but while I'm gonna keep calling it 'Jedi' this is most likely gonna be like gith warriors (I mix up the yanki and zerai) since 5e loves tying its flavor to setting stuff.
Hehe, easy to do.
IIRC the original Githyanki Gish from the 1E Fiend Folio were 4/4 Fighter/Wizards wearing medium armour & using greatswords so to me they'd be pretty different to Jedi which in D&D terms would be something like unarmoured defense sunblade users. But I get the psychic angle :)

I don't think we're all deadset on all the sublasses, but I think at a minimum we should have:
  • one unarmoured one to build things like the Witcher, Jedi, etc
  • one light/medium armoured dmg dealer like 4e Assault Swordmage, OD&D Elf, Githyanki Gish
  • one tanky type like 4e Shielding Swordmage
 

Hehe, easy to do.
IIRC the original Githyanki Gish from the 1E Fiend Folio were 4/4 Fighter/Wizards wearing medium armour & using greatswords so to me they'd be pretty different to Jedi which in D&D terms would be something like unarmoured defense sunblade users. But I get the psychic angle :)

I don't think we're all deadset on all the sublasses, but I think at a minimum we should have:
  • one unarmoured one to build things like the Witcher, Jedi, etc
  • one light/medium armoured dmg dealer like 4e Assault Swordmage, OD&D Elf, Githyanki Gish
  • one tanky type like 4e Shielding Swordmage
weapons do not determine much about the subclass as they need to be somewhat multi interpretable.

do we have any ideas beyond armour type as we need something with more bite.
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
what were our subclass ideas again?
Mine were as follows:
  1. Eldritch Nullifier - Antimage subclass that focuses on hunting down spellcasters and using their own spellcasting ability to be better at causing others to not cast spells (gets spells like detect magic, dispel magic, counterspell, silence, banishment, inflict wounds, and synaptic static), can cause a creature to not be able to cast spells the next round after they've been spell striked a limited amount of times each day, draining spell slots from others), and get to focus on necrotic damage. This subclass kind of functions like a WoW-style Death Knight.
  2. Element Herald - Focuses on using the versatility of elemental damage types, getting elemental spells (absorb elements, protection from energy, fireball, immolation, summon elemental, etc), can change any elemental damage type for any other elemental damage type when they use a magic weapon as their spellcasting focus, and can eventually learn any spells related to elemental damage that they see someone cast (kinda similar to an Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief feature, but it doesn't cancel the spell, it just lets them automatically prepare it). This subclass kind of functions similarly to 4e's Assault Swordmages.
  3. Battlemage - 3/4ths caster that gets up to 7th level spell slots, can attune to Wizard magic items, can learn Wizard spells, gets a minor version of a Wizard's Arcane Recovery, and get a restraining Arcane Smite feature. This functions more like Shielding Swordmages, as they can cast abjuration spells like Shield more often and getting more spell slots.
  4. Duskblade - Makes you even better at Spell Striking, letting you do more damage with it, do it faster, and ignore opportunity attacks from creatures you Spell Strike.
  5. Swordmage - This focuses on the teleporting theme of 4e's Swordmage, getting spells like Blink, Misty Step, Teleportation Circle, teleport whenever you attack with Spell Strike, do more damage when you teleport up to a creature, expend lower level spell slots to cast teleportation spells, and teleport up to creatures that provoke opportunity attacks from you as soon as they stop moving on their turn.
  6. Mind-Striker - You devastate enemies with both weapon and mental attacks by getting psionic spells (Tasha's Mind Whip, Dissonant Whispers, Raulothim's Psychic Lance, Synaptic Static, Detect Thoughts, Wrathful Smite, etc). You also get defensive abilities against mental effects, like advantage against being charmed and frightened, resistance to psychic damage (and dealing the rest of the psychic damage to the person that would have damaged you), etc.
Any thoughts on these?
 

Mine were as follows:
  1. Eldritch Nullifier - Antimage subclass that focuses on hunting down spellcasters and using their own spellcasting ability to be better at causing others to not cast spells (gets spells like detect magic, dispel magic, counterspell, silence, banishment, inflict wounds, and synaptic static), can cause a creature to not be able to cast spells the next round after they've been spell striked a limited amount of times each day, draining spell slots from others), and get to focus on necrotic damage. This subclass kind of functions like a WoW-style Death Knight.
  2. Element Herald - Focuses on using the versatility of elemental damage types, getting elemental spells (absorb elements, protection from energy, fireball, immolation, summon elemental, etc), can change any elemental damage type for any other elemental damage type when they use a magic weapon as their spellcasting focus, and can eventually learn any spells related to elemental damage that they see someone cast (kinda similar to an Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief feature, but it doesn't cancel the spell, it just lets them automatically prepare it). This subclass kind of functions similarly to 4e's Assault Swordmages.
  3. Battlemage - 3/4ths caster that gets up to 7th level spell slots, can attune to Wizard magic items, can learn Wizard spells, gets a minor version of a Wizard's Arcane Recovery, and get a restraining Arcane Smite feature. This functions more like Shielding Swordmages, as they can cast abjuration spells like Shield more often and getting more spell slots.
  4. Duskblade - Makes you even better at Spell Striking, letting you do more damage with it, do it faster, and ignore opportunity attacks from creatures you Spell Strike.
  5. Swordmage - This focuses on the teleporting theme of 4e's Swordmage, getting spells like Blink, Misty Step, Teleportation Circle, teleport whenever you attack with Spell Strike, do more damage when you teleport up to a creature, expend lower level spell slots to cast teleportation spells, and teleport up to creatures that provoke opportunity attacks from you as soon as they stop moving on their turn.
  6. Mind-Striker - You devastate enemies with both weapon and mental attacks by getting psionic spells (Tasha's Mind Whip, Dissonant Whispers, Raulothim's Psychic Lance, Synaptic Static, Detect Thoughts, Wrathful Smite, etc). You also get defensive abilities against mental effects, like advantage against being charmed and frightened, resistance to psychic damage (and dealing the rest of the psychic damage to the person that would have damaged you), etc.
Any thoughts on these?
1 needs a better name to many eldrich named things but null is a good word for them
2 workable herald seems too faithy for me would vanguard work better?
3 really needs better names as that has meant nearly anything in fantasy and needs something to more clearly say not just a wizard.
4 so really leans into the hit hard part, does it gain anything else as we are not making the champion fighter here?
5 again it is just a really focus on one area of the basic idea why not just knock them together for a just the default flavour but really good?
6 this I like.

each of them needs something to set them apart, assuming we settled on a movement resource what if each one can burn it for a different effect that is tied into the subclass theme?

also can we have a dragon themed one?
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
1 needs a better name to many eldrich named things but null is a good word for them
Would you prefer if it was just the "Study of the Nullifier", or if there was some adjective before that (like "Spell/Arcane Nullifier")?
2 workable herald seems too faithy for me would vanguard work better?
There's a Barbarian subclass called the "Storm Herald". I don't think it's an issue. However, it largely doesn't matter.
3 really needs better names as that has meant nearly anything in fantasy and needs something to more clearly say not just a wizard.
Well, it's clearly a "Battlemage", so a "Wizard" (or Intelligence-based Arcane Caster) that goes into battle (which tends to have connotations of blades and armor).

My original idea for the core subclasses (which have since expanded) were the Battlemage, the Duskblade, and the Swordmage. They all kind of went together, being fairly generic names that have been used to describe the "Arcane Gish" concept in D&D and M:tG before.
4 so really leans into the hit hard part, does it gain anything else as we are not making the champion fighter here?
Well, it gets magic. It's essentially the spellcasting equivalent of the Champion Fighter (as in the simplest option and easiest one to play).
5 again it is just a really focus on one area of the basic idea why not just knock them together for a just the default flavour but really good?
Can you elaborate on what you mean here? For some reason I'm not understanding. Perhaps a clarification would help.
6 this I like.
(y)
also can we have a dragon themed one?
Sure. I was just giving what I had so far.
 

Tinker-TDC

Explorer
1 needs a better name to many eldrich named things but null is a good word for them
Though it is falling out of favor as a name nowadays I feel like "Witch Hunter" is appropriate. I would say "Mage Slayer" as an alternative but that's a feat I think.
2 workable herald seems too faithy for me would vanguard work better?
Vanguard sounds pretty good, really as long as the theme is elements a lot of things could work.
3 really needs better names as that has meant nearly anything in fantasy and needs something to more clearly say not just a wizard.
I like battlemage but a 3/4th caster feels like it is in conflict with the idea of making it an arcane half-caster. Feels like this concept is more achieved by additional spells to the Bladesinger. Maybe giving it Arcane Recovery might work but I wouldn't put in higher-level spell slots.
4 so really leans into the hit hard part, does it gain anything else as we are not making the champion fighter here?
I am good with each class having a 'simple' subclass. The problem is if the class itself is as boring as the Fighter but if it has a simple subclass for people who prefer a basic striker it still had all the complications of being a half-caster which the Champion doesn't get.
5 again it is just a really focus on one area of the basic idea why not just knock them together for a just the default flavour but really good?
This makes me think maybe the subclasses should have bonus spells like Warlock or Clerics to add a default flavor into each one. Give this one mobility, Duskblade smites, whichever the defender one is a bunch of damage resist/shield spells, elementalist a custom list for whichever element you choose, the nullifier magic-blocking stuff, etc.
also can we have a dragon themed one?
What would the focus be mechanically? Would making the Elemental Herald/Vanguard dragon-themed fulfill this request?
 


Though it is falling out of favor as a name nowadays I feel like "Witch Hunter" is appropriate. I would say "Mage Slayer" as an alternative but that's a feat I think.

Vanguard sounds pretty good, really as long as the theme is elements a lot of things could work.

I like battlemage but a 3/4th caster feels like it is in conflict with the idea of making it an arcane half-caster. Feels like this concept is more achieved by additional spells to the Bladesinger. Maybe giving it Arcane Recovery might work but I wouldn't put in higher-level spell slots.

I am good with each class having a 'simple' subclass. The problem is if the class itself is as boring as the Fighter but if it has a simple subclass for people who prefer a basic striker it still had all the complications of being a half-caster which the Champion doesn't get.

This makes me think maybe the subclasses should have bonus spells like Warlock or Clerics to add a default flavor into each one. Give this one mobility, Duskblade smites, whichever the defender one is a bunch of damage resist/shield spells, elementalist a custom list for whichever element you choose, the nullifier magic-blocking stuff, etc.

What would the focus be mechanically? Would making the Elemental Herald/Vanguard dragon-themed fulfill this request?
uncertain I honestly know fairly little but lots of things have dragon hunters and also those strange dragon-themed classes from jrpg games as those tend to have magic.
 

Would you prefer if it was just the "Study of the Nullifier", or if there was some adjective before that (like "Spell/Arcane Nullifier")?

There's a Barbarian subclass called the "Storm Herald". I don't think it's an issue. However, it largely doesn't matter.

Well, it's clearly a "Battlemage", so a "Wizard" (or Intelligence-based Arcane Caster) that goes into battle (which tends to have connotations of blades and armor).

My original idea for the core subclasses (which have since expanded) were the Battlemage, the Duskblade, and the Swordmage. They all kind of went together, being fairly generic names that have been used to describe the "Arcane Gish" concept in D&D and M:tG before.

Well, it gets magic. It's essentially the spellcasting equivalent of the Champion Fighter (as in the simplest option and easiest one to play).

Can you elaborate on what you mean here? For some reason I'm not understanding. Perhaps a clarification would help.

(y)

Sure. I was just giving what I had so far.
on five it is the other half of our basic class concept sort of like a smite focused paladin subclass and a healing focused subclass if we are to have two basic subclasses the are just one side of it amplified I would rather merge them and have one default flavour.
 

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