D&D 5E Giving the arcane gish an identity.

[Frozen_Heart]

Unfortunately, as has been said, the game had the chance to make a dedicated weapon-caster during the D&D Next period when the Sorcerer was going to be it. Rather than another blaster caster, it was going to be focused (or at least highly leaning) towards the idea that your internal magic would power all the stuff you could possibly do, including fighting with weapons. But apparently enough people weren't crazy about the shift and they went away from the idea. Which is a shame, because Sorcerer could have been a good name to become the fighter-caster identity (or at least part of it).

I'm still salty about that. They tried to merge the sorcerer and arcane gish due to sorcerers unique thing being given to all casters. Then walked back on it at the last second. So we got a gimped wizard with the metamagic feat glued on, and no arcane gish class. I'm still meh on the idea of merging the sorcerer and arcane gish, and I think we're still feeling the repercussions of that being attempted and then backed out of in the modern 5e.

Ironically, sorcerer is now the only caster without a melee subclass.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Potential names so far (I've probably missed some):

Duskblade
Magus
Swordmage
Janissary
Gish
Arcanatoi
Guardian
Battlemage
Spellsword
Arcknight/Arcane Knight
Zerth
Warmage
Mage
Warrior-Wizard

sighs

Stabnerd


This is illustrating the problem. Every single person has a different idea of even the name of a potential gish class, let alone the lore. It has absolutely no identity at all currently, which I'm sure is the reason it has never managed to stick despite being an extremely common trope.

Thematically it has:

• Can use weapons.
• Uses arcane/elemental magic (not divine based or tied to things like a patron).

Mechanically common wants are:

• Teleports.
• Spellstrike.

 

[cbwjm]

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one! Obviously, we have different design priorities and preferences, and that’s fair enough.

i will say that I was speaking with a hypothetical WotC “official” arcane gish in mind, whereas you’re talking about homebrew. Different contexts, different perspectives, different solutions.

Oh right, yeah. If WotC was making something to fill this niche, they probably would try to avoid recreating subclasses for other classes in it. I can definitely agree with that. Homebrew can be anything goes, something official much less so. Sadly, I highly doubt we'll ever see any kind of official arcane warrior class that is a 50/50 split between combat and magic like the ranger or paladin. People sometimes bring up the artificer but it doesn't quite fill that niche, at least for me.

 

[Aldarc]

Don't you mean 'arcane tricksters'?

Ba-DUM-bum!

You can let yourself out.

My knowledge of prior editions is pretty poor, but wouldn't this be something of remix of the Warden?

I love the mage hunter angle, fighting fire with fire and all that. Problem is that a lot of this begins to infringe on the Ranger's thematic territory.

The Warden in 4e was more like a wilderness warrior defending primal nature, kind of like Swamp Thing.

 

[see]

By the same token... as far as naming conventions are concerned... I really have no idea how we've gone this long without the game ever deciding to create a single word to use to replace 'Sleight of Hand'. Or in fact, why the English language itself hasn't create a single word to mean really good and intricate finger work for that matter.

Like "prestidigitation", from French, from preste ‘nimble’ + Latin digitus ‘finger’?

Or do you prefer "legerdemain", from French léger de main ‘dexterous’, literally ‘light of hand’?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think that one thing that would open up gish options in D&D are levelled spell like the blade cantrips (BB, GFB, etc). Something line Steel Wind Strike but keyed of the casters melee attack. Steel Wind Strike is pretty anime, but kind of useless to ,say, and Eldritch Knight. Make it the attack roll of weapon attack and it is something else.
Create similar spells at lower levels and that would round out the options.

 

[Mind of tempest]

My knowledge of prior editions is pretty poor, but wouldn't this be something of remix of the Warden?

I love the mage hunter angle, fighting fire with fire and all that. Problem is that a lot of this begins to infringe on the Ranger's thematic territory.

warden is more druid fighter, and is the oath of antients paladin.

Potential names so far (I've probably missed some):

Duskblade
Magus
Swordmage
Janissary
Gish
Arcanatoi
Guardian
Battlemage
Spellsword
Arcknight/Arcane Knight
Zerth
Warmage
Mage
Warrior-Wizard

sighs

Stabnerd


This is illustrating the problem. Every single person has a different idea of even the name of a potential gish class, let alone the lore. It has absolutely no identity at all currently, which I'm sure is the reason it has never managed to stick despite being an extremely common trope.

Thematically it has:

• Can use weapons.
• Uses arcane/elemental magic (not divine based or tied to things like a patron).

Mechanically common wants are:

• Teleports.
• Spellstrike.

from a truly unique mechanic, we could go for something like barbarian rage but far more magic focused, like what would a warrior need some super mode ish or an instant self upgrading companion?
most of those would work best as subclasses.
thematically we want something singular in how they get their magic but it can be built or done a whole bunch of different ways by different people.

 

[Undrave]

Duskblade
Magus
Swordmage
Janissary
Gish
Arcanatoi
Guardian
Battlemage
Spellsword
Arcknight/Arcane Knight
Zerth
Warmage
Mage
Warrior-Wizard

sighs

Stabnerd

I was thinking, what about 'Steelmage' instead of 'Sword' something?

Maybe 'Adept', like the characters in Golden Sun who can unleash elemental magic called 'psy-energy' and can wield weapons to devastating effect.

Simply 'Elementalist'? Since it's not used anywhere in D&D.

Kensei would have been good if it hadn't been taken by the Monk...

Maybe we could always find a good greek word for warrior stuff and slap the ol' '-mancer' suffix to it? Back to my Steelmage idea could be adapted to Sideromancer... Makhemancer, Koptomancer, Hoplomancer, Dunamancer (wait...)...I don't know Greek...

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I think that one thing that would open up gish options in D&D are levelled spell like the blade cantrips (BB, GFB, etc). Something line Steel Wind Strike but keyed of the casters melee attack. Steel Wind Strike is pretty anime, but kind of useless to ,say, and Eldritch Knight. Make it the attack roll of weapon attack and it is something else.
Create similar spells at lower levels and that would round out the options.

I mean that's basically the strike/smite spells of paladin, ranger, and hexblade.

You bonus action to cast the spell, and then when your next weapon attack hits the effect goes off. Searing smite, ensnaring strike, and lightning arrow are all examples.

This is very similar to the swordmage spells in 4e. But in 5e, they barred the arcane classes from accessing spells like this. Depriving them of their signature feature while giving out that feature to the other classes.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I was thinking, what about 'Steelmage' instead of 'Sword' something?

Maybe 'Adept', like the characters in Golden Sun who can unleash elemental magic called 'psy-energy' and can wield weapons to devastating effect.

Simply 'Elementalist'? Since it's not used anywhere in D&D.

Kensei would have been good if it hadn't been taken by the Monk...

Maybe we could always find a good greek word for warrior stuff and slap the ol' '-mancer' suffix to it? Back to my Steelmage idea could be adapted to Sideromancer... Makhemancer, Koptomancer, Hoplomancer, Dunamancer (wait...)...I don't know Greek...

might would work better, kratos