D&D 5E Giving the arcane gish an identity.

[Frozen_Heart]

One thing which is brought up often when talking about 5e is the lack of a dedicated arcane/elemental gish class. Both of the two prior editions of DnD have had a dedicated arcane gish, as well as the current and prior editions of pathfinder. All have been centred around a spellstrike type mechanic, and all have had a clear focus on arcane type magic, rather than divine or occult links like Paladin or Warlock. As a result it has strongly associated mechanics and themes, but no 'story' to it unlike many other classes.

However one thing I've seen mentioned around this forum in particular is the lack of identity for the class, which may by one of the reasons for it failing to stick in the collective consciousness of the playerbase in the same way as a paladin. Even the class name has failed to last more than a single edition. Duskblade in 3e, swordmage in 4e, and magus in pathfinder. The only identifying feature it has consistently had is 'person who uses magic and weapon'. But this description applies to many other classes as well. I've seen some argue that it doesn't need an identity, in the same way a fighter doesn't. But unlike a fighter the class is a lot more specific.

The duskblade is mentioned as 'elite guardians of an ancient elven empire'. Which could provide some starting point. However it has a lot of overlap with the bladesinger, which as a 5e subclass lacks any of the features those wanting a gish class are asking for from a spellstriking gish. The swordmage from 4e is mentioned as being common among genasi, and the magic employed as being often but not always elemental in nature.

What do people think the identity should be for a dedicated arcane/elemental gish class should be if it did exist in the current edition? Or does it not need an identity beyond what it's previously had? How would you give it a story in a way which gives it a strong theme without preventing players from having their own background for characters using the class?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

In a previous thread, I suggested the name Janissary, the arcane equivalent to Paladin.
In lore, they would be planar bodyguard in charge of protecting Elemental and other Planar big shots. A Geni-lord's bodyguard, if you want. Seeking to guard portals linking its liege's domain against incursion from other planar travelers.

In terms of thematic, a mix of Horizon walker, Crown paladin and Genie-blade-lock would be the desired result.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Duskblade's origin and vibe is far, far too specific for a class. If the class can't be generalized to most worlds, it probably isn't a class, it's a subclass or something.

Swordmage is more like it but it does need a bit more identity than that. Trouble is it needs a fairly generalized identity. So it's a difficult balance to strike.

The other issue is that a lot of people want different things from the class, which you can serve with subclasses, but again, it means it can't be too specific.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I like the idea of a gish with a unique identity. I don't think that necessarily ought to preclude more customized options via multiclassing, but I do appreciate the cohesive approach that derives from having a dedicated class.

Personally, my favorite gish was the swordmage. The name perhaps left something to be desired, but I found the implemention very enjoyable to play. It was probably my favorite 4e class.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The duskblade is mentioned as 'elite guardians of an ancient elven empire'. Which could provide some starting point. However it has a lot of overlap with the bladesinger, which as a 5e subclass lacks any of the features those wanting a gish class are asking for from a spellstriking gish.

I always bounce off the word "gish" pretty hard, so I don't have a lot of history with these sorts of threads, but what is the bladesinger lacking that you'd like to see? I'm about to DM one in one of my games.

 

[Undrave]

I always thought that a guy who binds elemental spirit to their equipment would make a cool concept for a gish, especially if they bind them to armour and has their armour transform in cool ways during battle.

I like the idea of a gish with a unique identity. I don't think that necessarily ought to preclude more customized options via multiclassing, but I do appreciate the cohesive approach that derives from having a dedicated class.

Personally, my favorite gish was the swordmage. The name perhaps left something to be desired, but I found the implemention very enjoyable to play. It was probably my favorite 4e class.

One thing the Swordmage did great is that it FELT like a union of Sword and Magic. He wasn't like the Eldtrich Knight who slings spell with one hand and swings a sword with the other. It always felt like its actions wouldn't be possible without the martial or arcane component.

 

[CleverNickName]

I always bounce off the word "gish" pretty hard, so I don't have a lot of history with these sorts of threads, but what is the bladesinger lacking that you'd like to see? I'm about to DM one in one of my games.

I was about to write the same thing about the Hexblade, actually. Whats keeping the Hexblade from fitting the bill for "arcane swordsman"?

 

[J-H]

In a previous thread, I suggested the name Janissary, the arcane equivalent to Paladin.
In lore, they would be planar bodyguard in charge of protecting Elemental and other Planar big shots. A Geni-lord's bodyguard, if you want. Seeking to guard portals linking its liege's domain against incursion from other planar travelers.

In terms of thematic, a mix of Horizon walker, Crown paladin and Genie-blade-lock would be the desired result.

I get where this is coming from, especially given links to the Elemental planes and genies. However, in the current climate, a name based on a historical group that practiced literal slavery and forced religion changes as a way to weaken undesirable religious and ethnic groups is going to be dead in the water.

For 5e, we already have Bladesinger, Hexblade, Swords bard, and Eldritch Knight, all using weapons + arcane magic. I houserule EK to let them change which schools they pull from (nobody's taken me up on it yet).

 

[Undrave]

I was about to write the same thing about the Hexblade, actually. Whats keeping the Hexblade from fitting the bill for "arcane swordsman"?

I think it's more of a case of the Hexblade being too narrow a concept for a full class itself.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I always bounce off the word "gish" pretty hard, so I don't have a lot of history with these sorts of threads, but what is the bladesinger lacking that you'd like to see? I'm about to DM one in one of my games.

All prior arcane gishes have their mechanical identity built around something called 'spellstrike'.

In 3e this was the ability to cast touch spells through their melee weapon attacks. However from 4e onwards, the way touch spells are defined has been redone, and so this become dedicated spells which are cast through a melee attack. The 4e swordmage had a list of dozens of such spells, all with extremely varied effects.

Examples in 5e could be spells like wrathful smite, green flame blade, ensnaring strike, and lightning arrow. Paladin, ranger, and hexblade got big selections of these spells. However the two arcane gish subclasses (bladesinger and eldritch knight) got tied to the wizard list. Understandably the wizard list is not built for weapon attacks.

As a result, the arcane gishes no longer have the mechanic which people play them for (apart from two cantrips). It's like making barbarian a fighter sublcass, but removing rage from it. It would still have all the barbarian theme. But it would no longer have the mechanic people enjoy.