D&D 5E Giving the arcane gish an identity.

[Mind of tempest]

I'd love it if the mobility mechanic supported both a "teleport" type of playstyle like the 4e swordmage had, and a "mega jump" type of playstyle like a Jedi or wuxia style character.

Unfortunately the jump rules and the Jump spell in this edition aren't anywhere near good enough to support that, they doesn't scale with level, spell slot, Athletics score, or anything else other than pure Strength score. So that's not going to work.

What if there was a movement mode ability in the base class that got modified in different ways by the subclasses ? eg What if the class got a version of Cunning Action (call it something like Battlefield Mobility or something like that?) that says " You can take a bonus action to Dash, this movement does not provoke Opportunity Attacks" and then the various subclasses had things like "When you use your Battlefield Mobility, you may jump for any or all of the movement, ", "When you use your Battlefield Mobility, you blur for the duration of the movement and gain advantage on your first attack after it on your turn", "When you use your Battlefield Mobility, you teleport instead of moving normally", etc etc.

This would give them something they could use frequently but comes at an action economy cost of their BA, meaning it would contend for other uses of their BA so they have meaningful choices to make.

Thoughts ?

so my above suggestion of a movement resource? I might suggest not all of them go toward teleporting around the battlefield as that would be dull.

what were our subclass ideas again?

 

[Minigiant]

I'd love it if the mobility mechanic supported both a "teleport" type of playstyle like the 4e swordmage had, and a "mega jump" type of playstyle like a Jedi or wuxia style character.

One think I liked about the 4e elementalist sorcerer is every element had it's one special movement. Perhaps that can be applied to the arcane gish?


Air: Flight
Earth: Burrowing
Fire: Extra walk speed
Light: Teleport
Shadow: Teleport
Water: Swim speed

 

[TheOneGargoyle]

what were our subclass ideas again?

I started having a go here but I think other people have had some good ideas too ... what do you think ?

 

[Mind of tempest]

• Subclass similar to / inspired by OD&D Elf race - lightly armoured (proper elven chain anyone?), long sword + short sword
• Subclass similar to / inspired by 4e Assault Sword mage - lightly armoured, 2H Sword
• Subclass similar to / inspired by Jedi - unarmoured (improved mage armour?), Sunblade / radiant version of shadowblade / lightsaber
• Subclass similar to / inspired by dusk blade - medium or (potentially at higher levels) heavy armour, any weapons
• Subclass similar to / inspired by Shielding Swordmage - light or medium armour, 1H weapon + magical warding (magical shield effect from one empty hand)
• Subclass similar to / inspired by The Witcher - no armour (superhuman stats & pure skill baby!), any weapon

okay first cut weapons out of it as they are not guaranteed.
so we got light armour, medium armour, heavy armour and unarmoured.
what mechanics do we give each of them?

 

[Minigiant]

What if we identify the arcane gish as martial archetypes of the wizard

• Abjuration: BIG SHIELD
• Conjuration: teleports behind you Nothing personal, orc.
• Divination: Parry. Parry oh Parry. I see all your moves dude.
• Enchantment: Blah blah blah. My mark is magic. You literally can't target the healer.
• Evocation: So that's+1d6 fire damage plus +1d6 lightning damage. Out and +1d6 acid damage.
• Illlusion: Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me?
• Necromancy: My health is my health. Your health is my health. My undead flanker's health is my health.
• Transmutation: pumps Venom into muscles
• Nethermancy: My shadow is a reliable flanker.

 

[Minigiant]

• Subclass similar to / inspired by OD&D Elf race - lightly armoured (proper elven chain anyone?), long sword + short sword
• Subclass similar to / inspired by 4e Assault Sword mage - lightly armoured, 2H Sword
• Subclass similar to / inspired by Jedi - unarmoured (improved mage armour?), Sunblade / radiant version of shadowblade / lightsaber
• Subclass similar to / inspired by dusk blade - medium or (potentially at higher levels) heavy armour, any weapons
• Subclass similar to / inspired by Shielding Swordmage - light or medium armour, 1H weapon + magical warding (magical shield effect from one empty hand)
• Subclass similar to / inspired by The Witcher - no armour (superhuman stats & pure skill baby!), any weapon

okay first cut weapons out of it as they are not guaranteed.
so we got light armour, medium armour, heavy armour and unarmoured.
what mechanics do we give each of them?

• Abjuration: Shielding Swordmage
• Conjuration: Assault Swordmage
• Divination: Jedi knight
• Enchantment: MMO Tank
• Evocation: Sith Inquisitor
• Illusion: OD&D Elf
• Necromancy: Duskblade
• Transmutation: Witcher

 

[Mind of tempest]

What if we identify the arcane gish as martial archetypes of the wizard

• Abjuration: BIG SHIELD
• Conjuration: teleports behind you Nothing personal, orc.
• Divination: Parry. Parry oh Parry. I see all your moves dude.
• Enchantment: Blah blah blah. My mark is magic. You literally can't target the healer.
• Evocation: So that's+1d6 fire damage plus +1d6 lightning damage. Out and +1d6 acid damage.
• Illlusion: Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me? Which me is the real me?
• Necromancy: My health is my health. Your health is my health. My undead flanker's health is my health.
• Transmutation: pumps Venom into muscles
• Nethermancy: My shadow is a reliable flanker.

some of those just feel like diet wizards we want something more iconic you know?

• Abjuration: Shielding Swordmage
• Conjuration: Assault Swordmage
• Divination: Jedi knight
• Enchantment: MMO Tank
• Evocation: Sith Inquisitor
• Illusion: OD&D Elf
• Necromancy: Duskblade
• Transmutation: Witcher

what are these guys for again the basics of what a society would need such heavily build battle mages? as that might help get us at least 4 solid subclasses.

as you want to make each of them fun and feel different.

 

[Minigiant]

some of those just feel like diet wizards we want something more iconic you know?

what are these guys for again the basics of what a society would need such heavily build battle mages? as that might help get us at least 4 solid subclasses.

as you want to make each of them fun and feel different.

Magic is hard. Like science.

If magic were real,there would be little societal pressure to make wizards. There are few people with 8 science degrees.

Societies and militaries would have people focus on one school of magic and focus the rest of train on weapons combat.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Magic is hard. Like science.

If magic were real,there would be little societal pressure to make wizards. There are few people with 8 science degrees.

Societies and militaries would have people focus on one school of magic and focus the rest of train on weapons combat.

so is medicine and maths, we still get medics and snipers.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

Gonna try my hand at making a list because I think a lack of a spell list is the biggest thing holding the class design back.

Looking at already-made weapon/martial-feel spells we have (this list will be incomplete, feel free to comment on spells I miss), not including utility spells since 'balance' is more of a combat thing than anything else:
Cantrips
Blade Ward
Booming Blade
Green-Flame Blade
Lightning Lure (doesn't mention a weapon in the 5e ability but feels melee-focused and was a 4e swordmage at-will power)
Primal Savagery
Shillelagh
Sword Burst (same boat as Lightning Lure)
Thorn Whip
True Strike

1st Level
Absorb Elements
Armor of Agathys
Compelled Duel
Ensnaring Strike
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
Hunter's Mark
Searing Smite
Shield
Shield of Faith
Thunderous Smite
Zephyr Strike

2nd Level
Alter Self
Barkskin
Blur
Branding Smite
Earthbind
Enhance Ability
Enlarge/Reduce
Flame Blade
Hold Person
Invisibility
Magic Weapon
Maximilian's Earth Grasp
Mirror Image
Misty Step
See Invisibility
Shadow Blade
Silence
Web

3rd Level
Blinding Smite
Blink
Counterspell
Crusader's Mantle
Dispel Magic
Elemental Weapon
Fly
Gaseous Form
Haste
Intellect Fortress
Melf's Minute Meteors
Protection From Energy
Pulse Wave
Slow
Thunder Step
Vampiric Touch
Water Walk
Wind Wall

4th Level
Aura of Life
Death Ward
Dimension Door
Elemental Bane
Fire Shield
Freedom of Movement
Greater Invisibility
Hallucinatory Terrain
Staggering Smite
Stoneskin
Wall of Fire

5th Level
Antilife Shell
Banishing Smite
Contagion
Destructive Wave
Far Step
Hold Person
Holy Weapon
Mislead
Skill Empowerment
Steel Wind Strike
Temporal Shunt
Tree Stride
Wall of Force
Wall of Light
Wall of Stone

I am not suggesting this 'be' the spell list, but I am suggesting the power level be about here with 'Wall of Force' being about the most powerful spell available (considering the fighting style of the character).