D&D 5E Giving the Monk the TWF fighting style

[Cap'n Kobold]

I can't see something as improvisational as Sai being a common magic weapon, so I doubt there will be much of an advantage gained through allowing the monk to make sai attacks with their bonus action attack or flurry of blows.

In terms of feats, the existing dual-wielding feat and defensive duellist may do what the player is after.

 

[akr71]

I don't understand this issue because I have imagined that when monks are wielding weapons, even two weapons, that they are using a combination of weapon and unarmed attacks. They may be holding those sais, for example, while also pummeling their foes. And it's not difficult for me to imagine that the "unarmed strikes" are just rapid weapon attacks that do less than standard weapon damage, though improving with their unarmed damage increases.

Yes, I've always envisioned the monk's martial arts to be a combination of monk weapon strikes and/or unarmed strikes. For flavour, I would just roll with it - it sounds way cooler and more like a martial arts character to attack with a sai in each hand and not apply the off-hand penalty. Page 78 PHB

You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.

So a 5th level sai wielding monk can make two sai attacks (for 1d6+Dex each on a successful hit) and an unarmed strike (using his/her bonus action for an unarmed strike rather than an off-hand attack) for 1d6+Dex damage.

@CTurbo Now for the Sai Master feat - that's where I would incorporate the disarming nature of the weapon. However, I would try to make it generic for any two weapon wielder for fairness. Otherwise everyone at the table is going to want their own special feat...

 

[S'mon]

I just allow this. A Monk already gets per RAW two attacks at 1st level using a bonus action, eg w quarterstaff & DEX 16 gets d8+3 & d4+3. Making that 2 x d6+3 with two shortswords (etc) seems absolutely fine to me. In fact I let him spend Ki at 2nd to make it 3 x d6+3 (1 attack d6+3, bonus action for d6+3x2).

 

[Xeviat]

Unarmed attacks start at 1d4. If the sais also do 1d4, then they're monk weapons and will improve with monk levels and they're equal to unarmed attacks, so I'd just go with it.

I'd actually like to see a good reason for a monk to not go quarterstaff.


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[CTurbo]

I've slept on it and made my decision. I'm gonna allow him to use his sai for all attacks if he wishes. Why? Because ultimately it doesn't change anything. If he has no weapon and punches something 3 times a round, it will do 1d6+4 damage per attack. If he hit's something 3 times with his sai, it's going to do 1d6+4 damage per attack. The only difference I can see is the Sai can do bludgeoning OR piercing damage so I'm going to rule that he can choose the damage type for his 2 attacks he gets with his attack action, but the bonus attack(s) must be bludgeoning. He can also choose to throw a sai(20/60) with his main attacks, but not with the bonus action attack(s).

Now the feat is still up in the air. I like the +1 to AC when wielding a pair of sai, and I'm considering on just giving him the Parry and Disarming Strike maneuvers, but traditionally, you wouldn't disarm an opponent by attacking with the sai, you would disarm them by parrying their attack against you. So maybe they can have a superiority die, and when using the parry maneuver, if they manage to reduce the damage to zero, THEN the enemy makes a Str saving throw or drops his weapon? Maybe make him use a ki point or two? I kinda like the idea of tying it to the ki so he can't spam it.

 

[Xeviat]

Now the feat is still up in the air. I like the +1 to AC when wielding a pair of sai, and I'm considering on just giving him the Parry and Disarming Strike maneuvers, but traditionally, you wouldn't disarm an opponent by attacking with the sai, you would disarm them by parrying their attack against you. So maybe they can have a superiority die, and when using the parry maneuver, if they manage to reduce the damage to zero, THEN the enemy makes a Str saving throw or drops his weapon? Maybe make him use a ki point or two? I kinda like the idea of tying it to the ki so he can't spam it.

I wouldn't give the feat superiority dice. Have any special maneuvers use Ki. But how about this for disarming?

*Blocking parry: If you use the Dodge action and a melee attack with a weapon misses you, you may make an immediate disarm attempt as a reaction.

Couple that with an AC bonus and maybe something else and you have a cool weapon feat that benefits anyone but especially benefits the monk since they can spend 1 ki to Dodge as a bonus action.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

He wants to be able to use both sai effectively, but according to RAW, he would be better off punching with his offhand than he would be attacking with his offhand sai. Admittedly, I like the idea of him duel wielding sai as it's a pretty cool theme for a Monk and a little on the rare side. My only counter argument is, is it necessary? He already gets two attacks at level 5. He could just attack once with each hand and then use some other form of unarmed strike with his bonus action. He's wanting to essentially get 3 attacks with the sai. I guess that ultimately it's not going to matter considering that each attack would be 1d6+4 no matter what. I think I'll just let him have it the more I think about it. What do you guys think? Overpowered or almost un-noticeable?

This can be a bit of a balance issue, if you care about that sort of thing. You're talking about feats, so I assume you don't actually care about balance, but if you did then the ability to use a monk weapon with martial arts and flurry attacks can significantly boost the damage output of a monk. After all, there's no such thing as an amulet of +2 punching - and even if there was, it would require attunement - but magic daggers and shortswords are all over the place in the Forgotten Realms.

Of course, that shouldn't be an issue as long as you limit it to dual-wielding sais, since there are no magical sais, and since the wizard in the party has better things to do with their concentration slot than to keep Magic Weapon going.

 

[KahlessNestor]

I've slept on it and made my decision. I'm gonna allow him to use his sai for all attacks if he wishes. Why? Because ultimately it doesn't change anything. If he has no weapon and punches something 3 times a round, it will do 1d6+4 damage per attack. If he hit's something 3 times with his sai, it's going to do 1d6+4 damage per attack. The only difference I can see is the Sai can do bludgeoning OR piercing damage so I'm going to rule that he can choose the damage type for his 2 attacks he gets with his attack action, but the bonus attack(s) must be bludgeoning. He can also choose to throw a sai(20/60) with his main attacks, but not with the bonus action attack(s).

Now the feat is still up in the air. I like the +1 to AC when wielding a pair of sai, and I'm considering on just giving him the Parry and Disarming Strike maneuvers, but traditionally, you wouldn't disarm an opponent by attacking with the sai, you would disarm them by parrying their attack against you. So maybe they can have a superiority die, and when using the parry maneuver, if they manage to reduce the damage to zero, THEN the enemy makes a Str saving throw or drops his weapon? Maybe make him use a ki point or two? I kinda like the idea of tying it to the ki so he can't spam it.

Though technically sais actually aren't piercing weapons. The points aren't sharpened. As I understand it, the way you normally fight with them is use the heavy pommel to punch/strike with the long tine down your arm as defense, or occasionally to do precision pressure point strikes, not stabbing. If fighting a swordsman (katana), then you use the tines to bind up the sword and possibly disarm or sunder. That is how the weapon historically developed, from my understanding.

 

[Xeviat]

Though technically sais actually aren't piercing weapons. The points aren't sharpened. As I understand it, the way you normally fight with them is use the heavy pommel to punch/strike with the long tine down your arm as defense, or occasionally to do precision pressure point strikes, not stabbing. If fighting a swordsman (katana), then you use the tines to bind up the sword and possibly disarm or sunder. That is how the weapon historically developed, from my understanding.

But pop culture has sharpened them on numerous times.


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[mellored]

Does going from
3 attacks at 1d6+dex bludgeoning damage
to
3 attacks at 1d6+dex piercing (slashing?) damage
hurt anyone else's fun?

If it doesn't, then say yes.


Also, I suggest a magic pair of monk parrying sais. To be found when everyone else get's their +1 weapons.

When wielding both of the pair, and are attacked in melee, you can spend Ki to parry an attack.
If the attack hits, reduce the damage by your proficency modifier per ki spent.
If the attack misses, you can spend 1 ki to disarm the attacker using your Dex modifier in place of your Strength modifier. You can add 1d6 to your roll for each additional ki spent.
In addition, if you are attuned, you can summon the sais to your hand as an action. If you spend 1 ki, you can do it instantly, as part of any other action you take.