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Gleemax Terms of Use - Unacceptable

Steel_Wind

Legend
Oh. Just stop and give it a rest. If WotC or Hasbro makes money - it won't be because of your post to their forums.

This is internet petulance in its classic form.

Tempest meet teacup; Teacup, tempest.
 

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prosfilaes

Adventurer
Will said:
Other forums aren't connected to publishing enterprises; ENWorld doesn't have to worry about fans saying 'you stole my post in your Core Book revised!'

Wait; last time I checked, ENWorld was a publishing enterprise, just in PDF.

Steel_Wind said:
Oh. Just stop and give it a rest. If WotC or Hasbro makes money - it won't be because of your post to their forums.

This is internet petulance in its classic form.

Tempest meet teacup; Teacup, tempest.

Then WotC should drop the clause. If they don't, it matters.The wise man doesn't ignore the contracts he's agreeing to.

The Internet has helped blur the lines between the publisher and the reader, and it's certainly worth considering the forum rules before talking about something that you could publish elsewhere.
 

Shining Dragon

First Post
The point of Gleemax is to be a community of like-minded individuals discussion a common topic.

Not to server as a sounding platform for someone's "about to be published OGL system, setting or whatever".

Seriously. If you think you're going to be making money from your ideas then the first thing you shouldn't be doing is spreading them around the internet (if you think WotC are the only ones you need to worry about stealing your ideas then think again). And if you're not... then there isn't anything to worry about in the ToU.
 

Turanil

First Post
Another thing: some complain about WotC could use simple ideas posted on their forum (which usually aren't whole well thought out work), but forget that we are able to use their SRD at leisure and for free... (Without the OGL and SRD, I could not say hell to 4e and turn to True20 or C&C.)
 

2WS-Steve

First Post
Steel_Wind said:
Oh. Just stop and give it a rest. If WotC or Hasbro makes money - it won't be because of your post to their forums.

This is internet petulance in its classic form.

Tempest meet teacup; Teacup, tempest.

On ENWorld we already have an example of someone posting an extensive story and that story then going on to get published -- the third novel in the series is out right now.

There is also a rather successful screenwriter who has posted extensive stories on ENWorld -- perhaps not the kind that he'd normally sell for 6 figures (or more), but some of those d20 Modern ideas could have legs.

And one problem with a license like that is that even if/though WotC would never turn around and republish it, the fact that they can undermines your ability to sell the ideas elsewhere. Example: Let's say you post a story hour recounting your cool adventure about fighting snakes on a plane -- then turn it into a screenplay. Well, part of your disclosure to any studio interested in dropping 20-40 million dollars on that idea will have to be that you once posted it to the WotC web-boards under that license -- and then the studio's going to tell you that there's no way they're going to spend that kind of money if someone else can pop right in and create their own derivative material (including sequels and merchandising) off it.

If you don't plan on having a creative career, everything's cool. But if you do plan on doing so, you'd be better off sharing your best and most creative ideas at places like ENWorld.
 

Sigurd

First Post
Contracts are about all possibilities.

Respectfully, all those saying WOTC will or won't do ______.

Why isn't it in the license? It might not be enforceable but what if it is?

This is about whats fair for a site you contribute to and I think it crosses my personal line. There must be other ways to protect themselves from law suits without being so draconian or greedy.

Besides, if companies want the world at large to take their copyright concerns etc... seriously they should do so for others. I have always assumed that WOTC received a promotional benefit from their website and that was good. I like helping others with their games - that too is good. But here WOTC hides a licensing away in their terms of service which goes too far. It makes me feel like an indentured writer for an over arching publisher.

This warning should flash before you post to their site.

When I hear that they yanked/didn't renew licenses from publishers I support it makes me even less inclined to contribute to this company.

For those who say "you'll never make any money from your writing anyway" - they should stick to talking about their own writing and ambitions.

Even as a dreamy exercise, it is nice to think of your writing in the context of a larger work. It is not likely to happen but that's part of the joy of writing for me. I don't want to think that everything I write can be lifted without so much as a thank you. I consider it a privilege to promote the game and help other gamers. I have read some really good work that is better than the published material in my opinion. I think contributing to a company website about its product should be mutual appreciation, not exclusive service.

Websites are a great way of creating interesting writing. I don't think that creativity should be given away easily.

I respect their creative spirit. It saddens me to find licenses like this.

Me, I will find one of the many other sites.


Sigurd
 

Steel_Wind said:
Oh. Just stop and give it a rest. If WotC or Hasbro makes money - it won't be because of your post to their forums.

This is internet petulance in its classic form.

Tempest meet teacup; Teacup, tempest.

As I said in an earlier post:

D&D's always worked like this.

I mean, look at WOTC's claimed "intellectual property". The beholder, written by Terry Kuntz, published by Gary Gygax in Greyhawk without even a thank-you (corrected in the Monster Manual in 1977). The displacer beast, borrowed without consent from the coeurl in an A.E.Van Vogt story. The githyanki, githzerai, and slaadi, submitted by a teenage Charles Stross to White Dwarf. (His other works, such as "Zytra, Demon Lord of Mind Flayers" didn't quite catch on...) The whole apparatus of hobbits (sorry, "halflings"), wargs (sorry, "worgs"), ents (sorry, "treants"), balrogs (sorry, "balor") and so forth borrowed without consent from Tolkein. I mean, Gary Gygax even used Tolkein's misspellings ("dwarves", "dwarven".)

Don't be dumb. Protect your IP.


WOTC's most valuable intellectual property all shares one common feature.

Nobody from WOTC wrote it.
 

Maggan

Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
As a comparison, Games Workshop lays claim to everything you post online ANYWHERE which is derived from their IP.

That hasn't stopped e.g. WFRP from having one of the best fan support networks in the hobby. And it hasn't stopped me from devoting a lot of time and effort on my WFRP blog. And yes, I am a writer by trade and profession.

This doesn't bother me the least. If I want to make money off my IP, I sure as hell won't base it on someone else's IP and I certainly won't post it to any web sites not under my total control in the first place. But I'm just talking for me here, obviously others feel differently.

/M
 

2WS-Steve

First Post
Maggan said:
As a comparison, Games Workshop lays claim to everything you post online ANYWHERE which is derived from their IP.

Games Workshop can claim anything. In fact, I can too: "Anything Games Workshop publishes or has published belongs to ME!!" And, look, our claims are equally legally valid!

Even though you couldn't publish your original writings based on their IP without their permission, they can't publish your writings without your permission either. There was a legal case along these lines where someone had written a Rambo 3 and the courts clarified how these sorts of mixed intellectual property situations would be worked out.
 

Henrix

Explorer
Isn't that about the standard agreement on any corporate owned forum? I am certain I've seen very similar stuff on other forums.

And it doesn't mean much. At most it means that if you have a bright idea and post about it, and somebody then gets an idea out of it and publishes it, WotC's back is covered.

It isn't because Wizards wants to steal your precious ideas - if they listened to every idea that a fan sent in wanting them to use they would drown in them. :\
 
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