GOD RULES: Player's Guide (5e) Previews/Discussion

[Upper_Krust]

Design choices can require trade-offs. If the priority is consistency, you would make the choice one way, whereas if the priority is clarity, another.

My view is that clarity trumps consistency when explaining how a thing works. Consistency trumps clarity for a stat block but would rely on clarity in the underlying definitions or explanations.

On that basis I would recommend that you preference clarity in your detailed descriptions, meaning that you might use fractions or decimals depending on the specific circumstance.

Hey amigo - thanks for the feedback (just back from the eye clinic - all good but likely taking a good month to fully heal).

Yes I just think I will go with clarity and ease of use rather than consistency in this case.

Using 1/2 and even 1/10th is easier than decimals. But for everything else decimals seem much simpler to follow.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

My view is that clarity trumps consistency when explaining how a thing works. Consistency trumps clarity for a stat block but would rely on clarity in the underlying definitions or explanations.

On that basis I would recommend that you preference clarity in your detailed descriptions, meaning that you might use fractions or decimals depending on the specific circumstance.

I definitely agree. So 1/2 as a fraction, but x2.5 as a decimal...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Super Energy Types Preview

Following are the new Super-Energy types which along with the even more powerful Ultra Energy types are backbones of divine damage. Hope you like them.

As ever, let me know what you think guys?

 

[ApollyonFall]

A couple of things about the damage types. First there's a typo with Pranic energy saying it's super poison instead of lightning in the effect section.

A few questions about how they work: Gravitic, with it's wording I imagine it working like this. "You deal 10 Gravitic damage to a creature with 20d8 hit dice, it will deal 10d8 damage." That is just my interpretation of how it would work, Let me know if this is not accurate.

Tachyon, How is the save determined? As some attacks may not have one attached. By this I mean what kind of save?

Does the Gibbering Growths Mutagenic damage create more instances or does it grow its hp?

Lastly I just want to say that these all look awesome especially Thelemic damage, I am looking forward to seeing what the ultra versions look like. Great work.

 

[therealselah]

Twenty years ago, I did some extended analysis and playtesting for epic play after we (Dicefreaks) had released Gates of Hell. I remember the feeling of frustration I felt as I recognized the utter reliance at epic levels that players had on the "Christmas Tree" effect - a surfeit of magic items designed to negate via immunities and buffs generally what they would face as epic level threats. It was also annoying to note that once the Christmas Tree was in effect, combat became very bland.

As a result, when I dipped my toes back into Epic gaming with a simplified, relative power system, I worked with a system similar to what you have previewed above. I didn't use new energy types, per se; I just specified that some of the existing energy types from epic sources would not necessarily be rendered harmless by lesser types of resistance and immunity. By and large, the players were ok with this. (I extended this also to the idea that there were also some abilities that would be able to ignore some of their epic capabilities - I had a very frustrated player that hated the Truth Taster I introduced in Sigil that he wasn't able to deceive despite his epically powerful deception capabilities.)

Similarly, in the Magnamund campaign I'm about to run in real life, psychic powers and resistances scale even across the first twenty levels in ways that mirror what you have previewed above - something that I felt made sense for the world of Lone Wolf. This gives more depth to matters of psychic combat.

All of that to say this: As far as I can tell, epic level play needs a system like this. Immunity that is available pre epic and works forever is a terrible and stultifying mechanic. I love the use of super and ultra energy types as a way to get around mere "your fire immunity isn't strong enough for this level of fire damage" encounters.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

These are really cool!

Two comments/questions:

Pranic Energy seems dramatically weaker than the other types, reducing your own HP by double the extra damage you do.

Does the Gibbering Growths Mutagenic damage create more instances or does it grow its hp?

Yeah, I had the same question. This could get explosive...

 

[Upper_Krust]

A couple of things about the damage types. First there's a typo with Pranic energy saying it's super poison instead of lightning in the effect section.

Thanks amigo.

A few questions about how they work: Gravitic, with it's wording I imagine it working like this. "You deal 10 Gravitic damage to a creature with 20d8 hit dice, it will deal 10d8 damage." That is just my interpretation of how it would work, Let me know if this is not accurate.I

The way it's meant to work is if you use a Gravitic, attack on an 80 Hit Dice Monster it's as if the caster is 80 Hit Dice themselves (though the damage is capped at double its initial power).

That said, I agree Gravitic damage is a bit confusing. I had an alternate version (where you are instead weakened til the end of your next turn - reflecting how gravity is weighing you down) - but that might be too prone to abuse.

One possibility is to make Chthonic require a long rest to heal, then use the Fragile condition (Vulnerable to all damage) for Gravitic. That puts Chthonic in line with Undead attacks that deny healing and lower max. Hp.

in 3rd Edition I had Gravitic deal a percentage of your hit points, that might work if it's a percentage of current hp, a percentage of max hit points would be too powerful.

I'll figure out something simpler.

Tachyon, How is the save determined? As some attacks may not have one attached. By this I mean what kind of save?

In such cases I would just say you save on a 10.

Does the Gibbering Growths Mutagenic damage create more instances or does it grow its hp?

Mutagenic damage infects non-mutant health/hit points. So yes one growth will infect other beings and could lead to a gibbering army.

Lastly I just want to say that these all look awesome especially Thelemic damage,

had to throw in a bit of Darkseid-style blasting for fun.

I am looking forward to seeing what the ultra versions look like. Great work.

thanks for the kind works and feedback amigo.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Twenty years ago, I did some extended analysis and playtesting for epic play after we (Dicefreaks) had released Gates of Hell. I remember the feeling of frustration I felt as I recognized the utter reliance at epic levels that players had on the "Christmas Tree" effect - a surfeit of magic items designed to negate via immunities and buffs generally what they would face as epic level threats. It was also annoying to note that once the Christmas Tree was in effect, combat became very bland.

In 5E they circumnavigate much of that with Attunement Slots. But its still too easy to pick up Immunities in my opinion.

As a result, when I dipped my toes back into Epic gaming with a simplified, relative power system, I worked with a system similar to what you have previewed above.

Great minds think alike.

I didn't use new energy types, per se; I just specified that some of the existing energy types from epic sources would not necessarily be rendered harmless by lesser types of resistance and immunity. By and large, the players were ok with this. (I extended this also to the idea that there were also some abilities that would be able to ignore some of their epic capabilities - I had a very frustrated player that hated the Truth Taster I introduced in Sigil that he wasn't able to deceive despite his epically powerful deception capabilities.)

Energy Immunity is a big problem in high level play and I am not happy with how easy it is (Epic Boons) to obtain a lot of Immunities.

Similarly, in the Magnamund campaign I'm about to run in real life, psychic powers and resistances scale even across the first twenty levels in ways that mirror what you have previewed above - something that I felt made sense for the world of Lone Wolf. This gives more depth to matters of psychic combat.

Best of luck with the campaign amigo.

All of that to say this: As far as I can tell, epic level play needs a system like this. Immunity that is available pre epic and works forever is a terrible and stultifying mechanic. I love the use of super and ultra energy types as a way to get around mere "your fire immunity isn't strong enough for this level of fire damage" encounters.

Glad you like it. I don't allow creatures to have an Immunity unless they have a Corresponding Vulnerability...some things can have two Immunities coupled with a single Super-Vulnerability (triple damage).

Typically:
Acid vs. Lightning
Cold vs. Fire
Force vs. Psychic
Necrotic vs. Radiant
Poison vs. Thunder

...though Acid vs. Thunder, Poison vs. Lightning would also work.

 

[Upper_Krust]

These are really cool!

Cheers Khisanth buddy!

Two comments/questions:

Pranic Energy seems dramatically weaker than the other types, reducing your own HP by double the extra damage you do.

Lets take my Ancient Red Dragon and give it Pranic Energy as its breath weapon. The Breath Weapon deals (135) 30d8 damage (save for 1/2 = 67) and the dragon has over 1000 HP. Average Level 20 character Hit Points is about 150. If the dragon sees it can get multiple targets with its attack it expends 330 hit points for +165 damage. Meaning the damage is increased to 300. Even if the typical character makes the save they are dead.

Pranic energy may seem weaker but it has massive potential for high hit point Boss monsters to simply obliterate low level characters.

Yeah, I had the same question. This could get explosive...

I think I understand the question now.

I think Mutagenic damage works either way, Either: as a singular amount of Mutagenic damage or Multiple Sources of Mutagenic damage. A singular total probably works best for Medium sized creatures, while larger foes might potentially have multiple growths attached.