God,.The Devil, And a Neutral Cleric

[pawsplay]

I don't think the Devil counts as "willing to serve" nor is he loath to break his word; he loves to wiggle his way out of it if he can.

I'm going to throw out there that insubordination to your boss that gets you fired is the very definition of haphzard behavior.

 

[Borthos]

I agree about the haphazardness of insubordination, but Lucifer, in his own eyes, was not being insubordinate. He was being loyal to a T, even though that loyalty did end up being insubordination. He was created to serve God, not man, and he resented that loyalty to man was being forced onto him, when he was created first and to only serve God. And he was willing to serve God, he really was, but God threw him out, so he decided to try to take over Heaven and return the power to Angels, not man. Even the demons he's using, not allying with. Very anti-Kantianist lol just throwing that out there.

 

[pawsplay]

I agree about the haphazardness of insubordination, but Lucifer, in his own eyes, was not being insubordinate. He was being loyal to a T, even though that loyalty did end up being insubordination. He was created to serve God, not man, and he resented that loyalty to man was being forced onto him, when he was created first and to only serve God.

So yeah, I think the valuing his loyalty to God the personage over God as Law shows a non-Lawful mindset. He was obedient, not lawful; devoted, not disciplined. The medieval Devil would be NE or CE in my view.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Balance-wise, do you think there'd be any problem with the Devil being NE, since your version of God is NG? According to Pathfinder rules, you can only be a cleric one step away from your deity ... so with your current NG / LE deity arrangement, there can't be any Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil clerics... and apparently God is willing to support True Neutral clerics?

I'm a little confused as to why you'd allow neutral clerics, though. In such a world of duality, why would either side want to support a non-believer?

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

I must remind you that real-world religion is not a subject we find appropriate for these boards. Discussion of what character traits Lucifer has based upon real-world scripture is apt to be problematic. Please steer away from real-world dogmas.

Thank you.

 

[Borthos]

Sorry Umbran, forgot.

The true neutral cleric thing was more of a side question.

 

[DumbPaladin]

No reason to stop your conversation, Borthos.

There's just no reason to tie your fantasy world's pantheon in any way, shape, or form to any real-world religious belief. The Bible is irrelevant to your game. It's a non-topic that people get all bent out of shape about for no logical reason -- so best to not go there.

My main point regarding the fact that you will only have 7 playable cleric alignments with two deities still stands.

 

[TanisFrey]

I don't see where you're going with that. That's practically the same as saying there are no neutral clerics.

Even if you didn't want to use the mechanics, I highly recommend Green Ronin's Medieval Player's Manual as a resource for using real-world religion and historical myth as the basis for the magical system. The author, David Chart, has written a lot of books that dig heavily into period sources.

Not really, the neutral cleric are the battle ground between the two. At least that how I would run it.

When you talk of only 2 gods in a setting I would toss out the normal rules for who can be a cleric of what god. I would use the 1ed & 2ed rules where a god may have clerics of (lists of alignment) as opposed to required to be within one "step".

How I would run the setting:
The Evil god of such a setting would use his neutral cleric to infiltrate the God gods church structure. They would try to take control of the rains of power of the god god's church in areas and subvert it. Most of these neutral cleric would have Law and/or Trickery as their domains and would use the god god's favored weapons, all to say I am one of you, to his fellow clerics of the good god.

The Church of "God" leaders would send out cleric who are good into the fields to connect with the layman. This is because of the influence of the hidden cleric of the evil god within the church. All of the Neutral leaders of the good god church are fighting a war of influence not knowing whom they can trust. They are fighting for positions of power within the leadership because they fear what someone else would do with it. They are contently worrying about if they are undercutting the correct member of their fellows and the whom they support.

Any quests given out would tend to be given to neutral clerics of both gods to help prove their connection to their apparent god of choice.

 

[TanisFrey]

Or the other way is to have clerics follow saints. Some of the neutral saints say they serve the good god but really gain power from the evil and may be one who says that he serves the evil god but really serves the good god.

 

[Borthos]

Not really, the neutral cleric are the battle ground between the two. At least that how I would run it.

When you talk of only 2 gods in a setting I would toss out the normal rules for who can be a cleric of what god. I would use the 1ed & 2ed rules where a god may have clerics of (lists of alignment) as opposed to required to be within one "step".

How I would run the setting:
The Evil god of such a setting would use his neutral cleric to infiltrate the God gods church structure. They would try to take control of the rains of power of the god god's church in areas and subvert it. Most of these neutral cleric would have Law and/or Trickery as their domains and would use the god god's favored weapons, all to say I am one of you, to his fellow clerics of the good god.

The Church of "God" leaders would send out cleric who are good into the fields to connect with the layman. This is because of the influence of the hidden cleric of the evil god within the church. All of the Neutral leaders of the good god church are fighting a war of influence not knowing whom they can trust. They are fighting for positions of power within the leadership because they fear what someone else would do with it. They are contently worrying about if they are undercutting the correct member of their fellows and the whom they support.

Any quests given out would tend to be given to neutral clerics of both gods to help prove their connection to their apparent god of choice.

I didn't know 1st and 2nd ed did that with cleric alignments, I could totally use that.

EDIT: what about a neutral cleric rejecting the temple's teachings but still having the power? (in this demiplane, you're born with magic, divine or otherwise. yay spontaneous casters) That could work, just deny access to domains.