D&D 3E/3.5 Going back to 3.5 - advice?

[BigCat]

So our group has been playing 4e for the last few years, and we've finally decided we can't continue with it. The chief problem is that encounters take too long. With our group's logistics, our sessions are short, so if we have a combat then the story doesn't move along at all. People also have complained about the "same-ness" of every battle.

All the players liked 3.5. However, I as the DM dread going back - 4e literally cut my prep time by 3/4. I'm sure a lot has happened in terms of 3.5 clones and mods since we were last playing it (I'm aware of Pathfinder but have never played it) - does anyone have advice for how we might proceed?

 

[kinem]

I not a 4e player (I don't like it), but, have you tried the standard 4e fix of halving monster hp and doubling their damage?

 

[billd91]

I'd definitely give Pathfinder a look. You can check it out for free at Pathfinder_OGC. At least look for stuff to steal that may streamline your prep. Quite a few monsters got tweaked and you may find that helpful too.

 

[Remathilis]

Pathfinder is 3.5 with some 4e dashed into it. Its a lot of fun and keeps the 3.5 feel, but adds some new twists to the mix.

From the DM's perspective, you should keep this in mind.

1.) Thanks to standardization and revisions to skills, monster generation and advancement is smoother. The rules for creating new monster and assigning CRs are better too.
2.) The "XP budget" idea returns, and XP is independent of PC level. Makes leveling simpler.
3.) The Big Six are there, but pricing is a little saner. Magic items are pretty much like they were in 3.5.
4.) Thanks to higher hp, more powers, and faster feat accumlation, PCs are stronger than they were in 3.5. Monsters are revised likewise. Be careful mixing stock 3.5, as some of it can be really weak compared to PF.

If you want see more, check out www.paizo.com/prd

 

[CroBob]

If the big problem is seriously just encounter length, then simply shorten encounters. As advised above, double monster damage, half their HP. That seems slightly too extreme to me (I actually liked to half HPs, but only increase damage by about 50% for the less critical battles, since a doubled crit could kill a PC or bring them close enough, and that throws off the pacing). This isn't seriously a huge deal. If you have other big problems, cool, but this is basically a non-issue with a little simple math.

My general advice for going back to 3E is to not to.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Don't do any more prep than you have to. There are plenty of DM resources out there (and DM advice threads on ENW). There's no gaming system that can force you to do extra work, so it's up to you as a DM to figure out why your experience was thus and what you can do to keep your free time intact.

Truthfully, even though a lot has been published, I wouldn't strongly suggest spending money on anything other than 3.5; it's still as good as or better than any D&D-ish game on the market. PF has a few nice aspects to it, but I'd just read their SRD and port in what you like. And read Trailblazer.

 

[Zustiur]

In my opinion, most of the 3E prep is in the mind.
Take a 4E DMing mindset to 3E and you should be fine. Specifically:

* The numbers don't have to be "right" per PC build guidelines
* Not every skill, feat etc has to be filled out. Just note down the stats you actually need
* Forget spell lists, pick one or two spells that a caster will use, and fudge the rest if the situation demands it.
* Get used to missing your PCs and having your monsters die quickly again


I'd actually advise against playing Pathfinder. I'm running it now, and I think in hindsight I would have been happier as a DM had I stuck with a ruleset I was more familiar with. My players keep finding changes that I wasn't aware of, and it's interfering with smooth play. That's not a reflection on Pathfinder as much as it's a reflection on the amount of time I put into re-learning the rules. If you're like me (and your issue with prep time suggests that you are), you'll be better off re-learning 3E rules than trying to learn Pathfinder rules.

If you go down the 3E path, I very highly recommend limiting which books are used. A huge number of the problems with 3E don't exist if you only use PHB1.

 

[dd.stevenson]

So our group has been playing 4e for the last few years, and we've finally decided we can't continue with it. The chief problem is that encounters take too long. With our group's logistics, our sessions are short, so if we have a combat then the story doesn't move along at all. People also have complained about the "same-ness" of every battle.

All the players liked 3.5. However, I as the DM dread going back - 4e literally cut my prep time by 3/4. I'm sure a lot has happened in terms of 3.5 clones and mods since we were last playing it (I'm aware of Pathfinder but have never played it) - does anyone have advice for how we might proceed?

The big sink in 3.x prep is NPC prepraration. So I usually google those, or run a pre-built adventure. Or just stick with what's in the MM.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) One simple way to cut things down is limit sources. You can do this via an omnibus ban "Only these sources will be allowed", or compartmentalized "PCs may be built with the PHB and any other ____* sources you like."

(Where the blank is usually filled with a small number, like "2".)

2) as others have suggested, going to a close cousin of 3.5Ed might also be a bit of a blessing. While Pathfinder is a good choice, I find it is no better than other top contenders, like Arcana Evolved, FantasyCraft, True20, Midnight 2Ed, or even Mutants & Masterminds using the Book of Spells and Warriors & Warlocks supplements. Each of them does things a little differently, and have their strong points and weaknesses. You might find one of them more to your liking than Pathfinder, or maybe not. But they should be on your radar.

 

[Gilladian]

There's also a variant like E6. If you want a lower-prep game, this will do it for you. The idea is that characters advance to 6th level, and then stop. After 6th, they gain only feats; typically one every 5,000 XP earned.

This means that there are no (or very few) 4th level spell effects in existence, so no raise dead or teleport, and no super-complex monsters. The world is a grittier, lower-magic place, and the feel of the game is different.

You can also do E8 or even E10, but they raise complexity significantly.

You can find a set of PDFs here: http://esix.pbworks.com/w/page/9900109/FrontPage