Going to church? Don't forget your sawed-off shotgun!

[Deadguy]

Heck, when I participated in a 72-hour LARP in Nottingham *I* slept in my chainmail. Totally sucked, but on the other hand it totally saved my skin when we were ambushed overnight.

-z

Sorry to interject, but when and where did you LARP in Nottingham? Curious as a Nottingham resident myself.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I'm sorry, but I can't reconcile the lack of comprehension, he's a normal joe going to a church in a modern city, to meet with someone he is hoping to have help him. Does he need to bring his shotgun?

I can't say that the character was developed in the direction to justify that he would bring it, but I can't say that it wasn't either. Perhaps the player had a different image in his mind for what his PC was than what you would perceive his PC to be. In such a case I'd say his idea trumps. If he's picturing Indy and you're seeing Ross Gellar, you can't complain when Ross draws a bullwhip.

The essential question may be more of an expectation of role-play on my part. I thought it was not reasonable for a character having never experienced the EVIL that IS CUTHULHU to tote ones sawed off shotgun to a 1920’s church. There was NO EXPECTATION of EVIL, or DANGER.

It's quite possible that his expecation was that he world worked that way. "There's evil cults, I know it, you know it, hand me the shotgun and lets kick their ___" It seems more likely that he simply was used to a style of play, and expectations were different.

I think my negative reaction to the shotgun in church, stems from my desire to RP more with my fellow players, and not interacting with a player that is running his PC about like some weapon Video Game character, blowing away any part of the environment, and any people at a whim. (I hate'chu GTA) I had hoped to inspire my fellow player to give his collection of stats and skills more life and less need to get his killin' on.

It sounds like the group is probably wrong for classical CoC. (And, I don't think killing off investigators is "classic CoC" myself, it's a bad stereotype, IMO.) I've played in many CoC games with different feels, and it just seems like you're blaming this guy for having different expectations from you.

 

[iwatt]

In one campaign I played in, we pissed off a couple assassin clans, so we had to be extra careful.

Which would fall under justifiable chracater paranoia. You know, it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.


What I dislike is characters that have never been ambushed, never had assassins after them, etc.. Setting elaborate booby traps in their inn rooms if someone tries to enter at night. Justifiable if it's in your character background (stole some money from a mob boss), or if the campaign events (like your example) warrant it, but at Level1 when they've just met in the inn?

 

[Numion]

The essential question may be more of an expectation of role-play on my part. I thought it was not reasonable for a character having never experienced the EVIL that IS CUTHULHU to tote ones sawed off shotgun to a 1920’s church. There was NO EXPECTATION of EVIL, or DANGER.

It's spelled Cthulhu, BTW.

He is a Dr. of Archaeology, a scholar, a man of science and reason. I figure he should deal with any conflict with words or his fists. I had an expectation that he’d be a normal person who may know how to use a shotgun, but would likely leave it at home.

I really hate when DMs (or GMs) try to play the 'your character wouldn't do that' card. I become agitated when other players try to play that card. Only one person knows what my character would or wouldn't do, and that is me.

How do you know he's a man of science and reason? I'm a scientist myself and work at a research center with other scientists - and I know for a fact that we're just ordinary people. Some are quite eccentric, even. Not to the point of arming themselves, but who knows in the 1920s america? You're just forcing the stereotype of a bookworm scholar on his character without regard for how the player himself has imagined the character. And the players view matters more than yours.

Or would you accept him telling you that your character (was it the PI?) is of the stereotype that never resorts to guns, and would object every time you try to carry one?

 

[atomn]

See, I agree that most of the Character Paranoia is actually player Paranoia due to having been burnt once too many times by GMs abusing the night ambush. Travelling at night through wilderness, it makes sense for whoever is at guard to have his armor out and for those with light armor to actually sleep in it. But doing the same in town is ridiculous. Personally, when I get home I can't wait to take my shoes and socks off. I'd ratehr think that removing armor would be even more preferable.

I think you're dead on.

 

[Johnnie Freedom!]

I know a lot of people IRL with CCW permits that carry their sidearms in church. Both police and citizens alike. There have been a number of shootings in or at churches, and these police and CCW holders carry to protect their falimies them selves and other church members. I even know 2 pastors who carry as well. So it is not unrealistic and happens every day.

Though a sawed off shotgun IRL is extremely short range and inaccurate past a few feet. I prefer my Glock 30

ETA: The debate about guns and church comes down to what people believe about the 10 commandments. Some versions translate it "thou shalt not kill" which is a misstrans;ation of the original hebrew. Other versions translate it as "thou shalt not MURDER" and by murder premeditated slaying of another person. Not applicable to killing in war or in self defense. This is where the pacifist christians clash with the non-pacifist. If you want to do further reading on the subject here is a page with links to some articles: http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=81

So in a non horror real life world there are good reasons to carry a firearm in church, and even MORE SO in a horror type world. Christ said: "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22: 36.)

DEAR MODS: Do you REALLY want this thread becoming a debate about real-world churches and real-world guns, supplemented by real-world Bible quotations?

 

[Harmon]

For a long time I ran a time travel dimension hopping campain set in GURPs, the characters are almost all former special ops characters.

They travel with swords, SMGs, pistols, assault rifles, and a number of other weapons while wearing skin tight BioPlastic armor.

On a number of occasions they had found themselves in the modern day, I have made a point a number of times to ask them where they were wearing but more then once or twice the "normal" clothes have turned into thier armor and a relucent "just one pistol" has turned into a whole assortment of weapons.

Arguing with some Players about this turns campaigns on their ear, and pretty much just destroys the plausablity of the campaign.

"You are going to speak to the detective?"

"Ya."

"How are you dressed?"

Later, just moments after speaking to the detective the PCs have MP2000s in hand.

:\

 

[iwatt]

DEAR MODS: Do you REALLY want this thread becoming a debate about real-world churches and real-world guns, supplemented by real-world Bible quotations?

if you find fault with a post, report it. Don't threadjack.

This thread is about discussing things that jar the sense of verosimilitude in games.

 

[takyris]

I really hate when DMs (or GMs) try to play the 'your character wouldn't do that' card. I become agitated when other players try to play that card. Only one person knows what my character would or wouldn't do, and that is me.

But when "you" (in this case, not you, but certain players) make a character be a gun-toting sharpshooter despite the fact that the GM said "Normal people -- you know nothing about Cthulhu yet," that's frustrating for the people who didn't try to game the system.

And that's what this is. This is gaming the system. If you make a CoC character who just happens to be "X", where "X" is "an antique sword collector and coincidentally an awesomely skilled broadsword enthusiast" or "a guy with a job in no way involving firearms who just happens to not only enjoy firearms as a hobby but carry them with him wherever he goes, no matter how inappropriate for his character", you are gaming the system.

If the GM is setting up a "y'all come" game where gaming is fine, then great. The waitress just happens to be a demolitions expert, the librarian just happens to be lochaber-axe enthusiast, and the art collector carries his father's lucky shotgun with him wherever he goes.

But if most people AREN'T doing that, then it's frustrating when one person is.

The "I refuse to play a stereotype, so don't tell me what my character would and wouldn't do" argument loses a lot of power when what your character does in fact do just always happens to be the most minmaxy choice at any given time.

 

[Odhanan]

As Keeper I would have allowed the shotgun, would have warned the player about it being illegal, but most importantly, the subject of firearms would have been discussed during the game's briefing prior to the first session with all players present.

I wouldn't have minded the character bringing the shotgun in the Church. His paranoia seemed justified since there were zombis there, and if the other player didn't say anything during the pre-game briefing, he shouldn't have said anything during the game. He might have played his character surprised and lecturing the archeologist, and the moment would have been cool in an "Indiana Jones" sort of way.

Bottom line, I'm with the player of the guy with the shotgun. CoC isn't "real life RPG" and just as supernatural things are to be expected at some point, so does the use of responses that seem appropriate from the PCs' point of view.