D&D 5E Goliaths WebDM Misses the Mark, but Sparks My Curiosity

[doctorbadwolf]

Sometimes. Lots of mining cultures throughout history have used slave labour. Anything to make Dwarves less tedious than they usually are.

But the Dwarves don't have to see it as slavery. From the Dwarf perspective: we found some land on the mountainside that no one was using and started growing potatoes because we'd just opened mineshaft 14k and needed to expand our food supply. Then the Goliaths attacked us yelling about something to do with their ancestral lands being stolen (as if they even use the land they just wander all over the place - why don't they just go somewhere else) and killed our farmers. That's clearly breaking the law - so it's only reasonable they pay off their crime against Dwarven society with a period of indentured servitude (after all we're not barbarians - we don't execute our criminals and just leave them out on the mountainside for the vultures too eat - we give them a chance to reform and mend their ways through the dignitiy of labour).

Eh, not into making dwarves as evil as RL humans have been. To each their own, though.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm talking just about my experience with Goliath, I don't think it's the common conception of what Goliath are.

But to me, Goliath are just that; their competiveness and "only the strong matter" is pretty much just Frost Giants. They have a couple traits here and there that make them different, but they are largely to me, giants that aren't as giant.

Which isn't entirely bad; giants are awesome. It's just I'd want to play as an actual giant, not a goliath.

Okay, I get that I suppose.

I just don’t see them as any more giantish than elves are related to pixies. Definitely the same broad category, but beyond that...

Especially since Frost Giants aren’t normally depicted as truly possessed of free will, IMO. Ie, they seem to be incapable of dramatically differing alignment. That would put me off them as a PC race option more than the size issue.

Though, the size issue matters. They’re not just large, they’re too large to physically fit in any building the PCs will be expected to inhabit. I don’t know how to reconcile that.

 

[Mister-Kent]

I don't hate them, but I find them so uninteresting I guess. I'd welcome a Goliath PC but otherwise they wouldn't be a presence in my game settings - I'd likely just use really tough humans or Earth Genasi.

 

[gyor]

I'm talking just about my experience with Goliath, I don't think it's the common conception of what Goliath are.

But to me, Goliath are just that; their competiveness and "only the strong matter" is pretty much just Frost Giants. They have a couple traits here and there that make them different, but they are largely to me, giants that aren't as giant.

Which isn't entirely bad; giants are awesome. It's just I'd want to play as an actual giant, not a goliath.

Goliaths culture isn't as evil as Frost Giant culture, aren't blood thirty, they don't keep slaves, and so on.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Okay, I get that I suppose.

I just don’t see them as any more giantish than elves are related to pixies. Definitely the same broad category, but beyond that...

Especially since Frost Giants aren’t normally depicted as truly possessed of free will, IMO. Ie, they seem to be incapable of dramatically differing alignment. That would put me off them as a PC race option more than the size issue.

Though, the size issue matters. They’re not just large, they’re too large to physically fit in any building the PCs will be expected to inhabit. I don’t know how to reconcile that.

I mean you're right, I'm not saying that Goliath perfectly equal Giants, just that most of their cultural traits align with those of giants (and are pretty much giant-kin, and replaced Half-Giants in Dark Sun). They're made more neutral so that PCs can play them, but overall they do seem like the designers were doing a bit of "how do we make giants playable while side-stepping the size problem."

And of course, with the current rules the only way to play actual giants is if the DM allows it. Although, what you could do is have every PC play a giant (and use the goliath rules with a couple tweaks for each giant type), and just scale everything up. That would actually be an awesome campaign, a party of giants of different types out to restore Ostoria; reading Volo's now there are so many quests giants would want to do, like finding the lost capital, or the secrets to building cloud castles, and so-on.

 

[gyor]

I've thinking about it, but I'd also dump the DMG for a straight up metasetting book as a replacement as a core book.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I've thinking about it, but I'd also dump the DMG for a straight up metasetting book as a replacement as a core book.

The DMG is already a guide on how to build your own setting, what's the point of having a metasetting?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I mean you're right, I'm not saying that Goliath perfectly equal Giants, just that most of their cultural traits align with those of giants (and are pretty much giant-kin, and replaced Half-Giants in Dark Sun). They're made more neutral so that PCs can play them, but overall they do seem like the designers were doing a bit of "how do we make giants playable while side-stepping the size problem."

And of course, with the current rules the only way to play actual giants is if the DM allows it. Although, what you could do is have every PC play a giant (and use the goliath rules with a couple tweaks for each giant type), and just scale everything up. That would actually be an awesome campaign, a party of giants of different types out to restore Ostoria; reading Volo's now there are so many quests giants would want to do, like finding the lost capital, or the secrets to building cloud castles, and so-on.

I guess I just don't have any desire to play an actual giant, but I totally get the appeal.

And a campaign where everyone plays giants would be really cool. Like Council of Wyrms, but more accessible.

 

[gyor]

The DMG is already a guide on how to build your own setting, what's the point of having a metasetting?

So that folks can run most established settings from the word go.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So that folks can run most established settings from the word go.

How does adding a metasetting help you run a setting? Wouldn't it just add to the amount you need to learn before you can start?