Got M&M 2nd Ed, got a few questions to go with it...

[Trainz]

Well, I just bought it today.

It's cool so far, but I have a few questions/observations for those who have it.

Everything is now limited by the campaign's PL. Meaning At PL 10 your maximum attack bonus is +10. No matter if you buy the actual ranks in attack, buy feats that increase attack bonus, or whatnot, it stops at 10. Same for defense bonus.

I'm wondering, then, why all the variety in ways to get attack bonus if it freezes at 10. Might as well just pay your 20 PP and move on. There's no incentive for tweaking. Now, this might be a good or bad thing, but the fact remains that the tools are THERE for tweaking, but they're worthless. Weird.

I am not clear at what is actually limited by the campaign PL. Saves are (wether you buy saving throw ranks, have a high stat in the corresponding stat, or have feats, again, it doesn't matter how it's achieved).

Strangely, Skills don't actually look like they have that limit. Sure, you have a maximum skill rank limit, but at first glance it looks like you add your ability modifier to the skill, even after you have reached the limit in rank.

Also please explain to me how Alternate Power (page 108) works, also how Dynamic Alternate Powers work ?

And devices used to cost 1 pp less per rank, but after reading the chapter in the new book, it doesn't mention that. Am I to understand that a device costs the same as a regular power ?

I don't know. This is a tad alien to me, and I need to understand it purty much quickly...

 

[Skywalker]

Everything is now limited by the campaign's PL. Meaning At PL 10 your maximum attack bonus is +10. No matter if you buy the actual ranks in attack, buy feats that increase attack bonus, or whatnot, it stops at 10. Same for defense bonus.

I'm wondering, then, why all the variety in ways to get attack bonus if it freezes at 10. Might as well just pay your 20 PP and move on. There's no incentive for tweaking. Now, this might be a good or bad thing, but the fact remains that the tools are THERE for tweaking, but they're worthless. Weird.

Just because there is a limit to attack bonus doesn't mean you will max out in it. That is why it would be very strange to assume everyone paid 20PP to do so. There is tweaking in M&M but as a point system it is also balanced.

Strangely, Skills don't actually look like they have that limit. Sure, you have a maximum skill rank limit, but at first glance it looks like you add your ability modifier to the skill, even after you have reached the limit in rank.

Skill ranks are limited to PL+5 IIRC

 

[Trainz]

Just because there is a limit to attack bonus doesn't mean you will max out in it. That is why it would be very strange to assume everyone paid 20PP to do so. There is tweaking in M&M but as a point system it is also balanced.

I can appreciate that. It brings min/maxing back in line.

But you didn't address my observation. Why the need to have feats to increase attack bonus if it can't go higher than the max BaB ? Why not just stick to BaB and forego any other attack increasing option, since they don't actually give you more, except maybe split the attack bonus in 2 or 3 clunky different parts instead of a simple streamlined one ?

With a few exceptions of course (like that option that gives you +2 per PP invested to hit with a single very specific attack, meaning that instead of paying 20 for 10 BaB, you pay 5, but for a very restricted attack mode).

Skill ranks are limited to PL+5 IIRC

I'm aware of that. Do you add the ability mod to that, or is PL+5 the maximum skill possible with ranks INCLUDING ability mod ? If not, what is the actual limit ?

 

[arwink]

I'm wondering, then, why all the variety in ways to get attack bonus if it freezes at 10. Might as well just pay your 20 PP and move on. There's no incentive for tweaking. Now, this might be a good or bad thing, but the fact remains that the tools are THERE for tweaking, but they're worthless. Weird.

Not quite worthless. You take a Base Attack of 10 if you want to be good at hitting with everything. You take the other options if you don't mind being really good at, say, shooting and throwing weapons but fairly mediocre in melee. One of my players uses power Specialization to keep her power blast near the maximum, but otherwise engages in fist-fights using her fairly minor +2 base attack. That cost her a lot less than the full base attack score would have cost her, although it limits her a little when she can't use her blast.

Keep in mind that trade-offs between attack and maximum damage DC means that even if you choose not to use the alternative methods of getting BA, there will still be a wide variety of BA scores in the game.

I am not clear at what is actually limited by the campaign PL. Saves are (wether you buy saving throw ranks, have a high stat in the corresponding stat, or have feats, again, it doesn't matter how it's achieved).

Things that cannot exceed the campaign PL: Attack Bonus, Defense Bonus, Toughness Save, the DC of any power or ability that requires an opponent to make a save (including damage from attacks, mental powers, etc). You've got the gist of it right though - it doesn't matter whether you damage bonus (for example) comes from a high strength score, ranks of strike, an atomic cannon or lots of ranks in sneak attack - it's limited to maximum of +10 in a PL 10 game. The only way around this is the trade-offs - lowering your maximum BA in order to get a higher DC on your damage, lowering your Defence in order to take a higher Toughness save, and vice versa.

Skill ranks, Fort/Ref/Will saves and Skill ranks can all go up to the PL + 5. Not that it is just skill ranks that are limited this way, not the bonus for using a skill.

Also please explain to me how Alternate Power (page 108) works, also how Dynamic Alternate Powers work ?

Alternate powers largely mean that you can only use one of the powers at a time. So if I had Blast 10 (Alternate Power: Flight 10) I can either fire a blast or fly at any given time, but I can't actually do both. It's an either or equation - I can't mix and match the levels of the power used.

If the same power was a dynamic array, then I could choose to lower my Blast to 8 in order to use the other power in the array at 2 - So I can fire a weaker blast, but fly at a speed well below my maximum.

And devices used to cost 1 pp less per rank, but after reading the chapter in the new book, it doesn't mention that. Am I to understand that a device costs the same as a regular power ?

Devices are now handled by the Device power, which costs you either 3 or 4 pp per rank but gives you 5 points of "Device" power points to buy the powers and abilities of the device. It's essentially the same thing as the old device rules, just written up in a slightly different way. The exact cost depends on how easy the device is to take away.

Frex - if I have 1 rank of device and that device represents an exoskeleton I use to bost my strength, it costs me 4 pp per rank (because the exoskeleton can only be removed while I'm unconscious or otherwise restrained) but gives me 5pp to spend on Super Strength. Or I can spend 2 points of super-strength and 3 points buying up ranks in another power.

If the device was instead at atomic wrench which was held in my hands and easily disarmed in a fight, it only costs me 3pp per device rank. I still get the 5 pp to spend on Super Strength that I would if it was a hard-to-lose exoskeleton, but the bad guys can take it away from me in the middle of a fight.

 

[Trainz]

You have no idea how useful and clear your reply was to me. It all makes sense.

I couldn't spend that much time studying the book in detail, which is why I needed quick answers to my main questions. Tomorrow I'm busy and I'm gonna start making characters probably tomorrow night.

Thanks !

 

[Trainz]

Got more questions... Autofire.

It's described on page 112 and page 160.

On p. 160, it says that each number by witch you succeeds the defense on you attack increases the damage save. But on page 112, it seems to imply that it's each two increments that add 1 to your damage save.

 

[Jim Hague]

I do believe that it's by every 2 that you exceed a target's defense.

 

[DanMcS]

Got more questions... Autofire.

It's described on page 112 and page 160.

On p. 160, it says that each number by witch you succeeds the defense on you attack increases the damage save. But on page 112, it seems to imply that it's each two increments that add 1 to your damage save.

It's every 2.

http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=11876

 

[Trainz]

It's every 2.

http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=11876

Well, if Steve Kenson says so, I guess it's true.

 

[DanMcS]

Well, if Steve Kenson says so, I guess it's true.

If you look in there, there's a whole forum devoted to people asking questions of him. You can find most any rules-related question answered there, and he also reveals somewhat of the design decisions that went into the second edition. I found it interesting browsing.