Grade the Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) System

[CleverNickName]

Have you used the PbtA (Powered by the Apocalypse) game system? If you're not familiar, you'd be forgiven: it is one of the newer game systems currently in use...it was written by Meguey and Vincent Baker in 2010 for the Apocalypse World RPG. Since then, it has been adapted to dozens (hundreds?) of other games, including Avatar Legends, Dungeon World, Ironsworn, Monsterhearts, Thirsty Sword Lesbians, and Uncharted Worlds. Wikipedia has the following to say about it:

Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) is a tabletop role playing game design framework developed by Meguey Baker and Vincent Baker for the 2010 game Apocalypse World and later adapted for hundreds of other RPGs.​

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Powered by the Apocalypse games are typically centered on resolving what characters do as "moves." Characters have access to a default selection of moves based on the expectations of the game setting. For example, in the fantasy game Dungeon World, characters have access to a hack and slash move, as combat is central to the dungeoneering experience. Alternatively, Apocalypse World has a "seize by force" move, as the game assumes a setting where collecting scarce resources is part of the game-play experience.​

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Moves are resolved by rolling two six-sided dice and adding any relevant modifiers. Success levels fall on a scale of total success, partial success, or miss. Partial success often means "success at a cost," where players must select an additional negative outcome as the price of success. Likewise, "miss" often means a negative outcome that moves the narrative forward, rather than "nothing happens."​

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Most PbtA games are class-based. Character classes have access to a number of class-specific moves. Emily VanDerWerff for Vox highlighted that:​

"in PBTA games, players roll two six-sided dice (or D6s) to determine whether they succeed or fail at tasks set for them by the game master. The GM, in turn, keeps things moving and tries to preserve a modicum of continuity. But the players also have extreme amounts of leeway to help shape the world and their relationships with other characters."​

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James Hanna for CBR contrasted the mechanics of PbtA and Dungeons & Dragons:​

"the differences really come down to crunch and conversation. Players looking for a sandbox or linear adventure with lots of crunchy combat will enjoy D&D in all its glorious variety. Those who want a more collaborative storytelling experience with fewer granular choices (and probably less math) should try PbtA games."​

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Keerthi Sridharan for Polygon wrote, "Games that use the PbtA label are ones that take their cues from Apocalypse World regarding any number of things: running a session zero, how dice mechanics work, or even aesthetic and design elements."​

As I've said before in the other threads, the D20 System is the undeniable favorite for tabletop RPGs today, but there are plenty of options out there for those who don't like D20 or might be looking for something different. My goal in these little surveys is to highlight the different systems and options available to tabletop fans...I certainly don't want to bash anyone's favorites. So! If you've used the PbtA system, I'd really like to hear about your experience. What did you like/dislike about it? What games did you play? And if you've never played it or one of the many successful games that use it, what's holding you back? I'll collect everyone's votes and give the system a "grade" from A+ to F, just for fun.

Grade: B-
Of those who voted, 100% have heard of it and 72% have played it.
Of those who have played it: 34% love it, 29% like it, 22% are lukewarm, 7% dislike it, and 8% hate it.

Spoiler: Grading

The "grade" is calculated as follows:

• Votes from people who have not played it will not affect the grade.
• "I love it" votes are worth 4 points. The highest score, comparable to an "A" vote.
• "It's pretty good" votes are worth 3 points. The equivalent of a "B" vote.
• "It's alright I guess" votes are worth 2 points. This is your basic "C" vote.
• "It's pretty bad" votes are worth 1 point. This is considered a "D" vote.
• "I hate it" votes are worth 0 points. The lowest score, considered an "F" vote.

The grading formula:
GPA = Σ(P_iV_i)

where:

GPA = "grade-point average," the grading score used in the Key below.​

V_i = percentage of votes in each category (Love, Like, Meh, Dislike, or Hate)​

P_i = corresponding score for that category (4, 3, 2, 1, or 0)​

Key
Over 3.75 = A+
3.51 to 3.75 = A
3.26 to 3.50 = A-
3.01 to 3.25 = B+
2.76 to 3.00 = B
2.51 to 2.75 = B-
2.26 to 2.50 = C+
1.76 to 2.25 = C
1.51 to 1.75 = C-
1.26 to 1.50 = D+
1.01 to 1.25 = D
0.75 to 1.00 = D-
Under 0.75 = F

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[Retreater]

It's good for a one-shot or a very short campaign. There's little assistance for a GM to figure out if they're doing a "hard" or "soft" move. So it's sort of like getting a monster book and not being told if the damage should be 1d4 or 2d20+15.

 

[jdrakeh]

The thing is, there's really no "core" PbtA system (unless you want to consider Apocalypse Word the core because it kicked everything else off). Every permutation of PbtA is a little bit different - or - a lot different. I love some PbtA games, like others, and absolutely can't stand even more. It is utterly dependent upon the specific implementation, for me. So I guess I can't vote in this poll.

 

[CleverNickName]

I really don't have any excuses for having not played this system yet. I backed the Avatar Legends Kickstarter, and the books arrived months ago. I got a copy of Thirsty Sword Lesbians as a gift. I've gotten several other PbtA games in PDF format, from a couple of different Humble Bundles over the years. I have plenty of motive, plenty of means, and plenty of opportunity...I just haven't yet.

But from what I've read, it sounds like it puts more emphasis on storytelling and less on combat. And I find that idea very appealing. Don't get me wrong, I love me some D&D...but the combat scenes can get really stale sometimes. I'll have to give it a shot and let y'all know what I think.

 

[piou]

PbtA isn't a single system and for any thing a given PbtA does you'll find one that does it differently. In that sense it's very different from Fate or Gurps: it's not a modular system, it's more of a design philosophy.

There are however some common traits among PbtA games:

• They generally use a 3 result system (miss, weak hit, strong hit) that is really good at pushing the narrative forward on its own, especially combined with Failing Forward principle (often encouraged in PbtA games). This makes them generally better suited to improv-heavy games than prep-heavy ones.
• They're very good at playing very specific things. So "13 yo kids solving mysteries in their school in the 1990s" is much more likely to be well emulated using PbtA than "investigation". The more specific the better. This is generally seen as why most bad PbtA games are bad: it generally has to do with a lack of luster when emulating a very specific genre or trying to emulate something too big and losing any theme in the process.
• They require a specific GM style. In fact they so require it that it's codified by GM rules. These are good rules, but coming from D&D it's generally quite the cultural shock. It works though, so trust the game and try it as it wants to be played before trying to change anything.
• They're fiction first game. The impulse of an action is always given in narrative first, then this can trigger mechanical consequences, and this results in a narrative consequence. But you're never just "pushing a button" on your character sheet to do something, you're never just activating an ability, it comes from the fiction first. "You have to do it to do it."
• Despite being largely narrative games, they're generally not rules-light. There are tons of rules in most PbtA, be it for the characters or on the GM side. They're not difficult to track or apply (in most cases) but they're there.

I think this should give the most information for people trying to gauge whether a PbtA game might be for them or not.

 

[CleverNickName]

The thing is, there's really no "core" PbtA system (unless you want to consider Apocalypse Word the core because it kicked everything else off). Every permutation of PbtA is a little bit different - or - a lot different. I love some PbtA games, like others, and absolutely can't stand even more. It is utterly dependent upon the specific implementation, for me. So I guess I can't vote in this poll.

PbtA isn't a single system and for any thing a given PbtA does you'll find one that does it differently. In that sense it's very different from Fate or Gurps: it's not a modular system, it's more of a design philosophy.

You're absolutely right: PbtA is more of a rules framework, and it changes quite a bit from game to game and genre to genre. It's kind of like the D20 System in that regard...Pathfinder 1E, D&D 3.5E, D20 Modern, D&D 4E, D&D 5E, and Pathfinder 2E are all "D20 System" games, but they are certainly not identical. They're not even interchangeable...not without a lot of reworking, anyway.

Looking down the roster, I think this is going to be the case for several other game systems coming up.

(listed things

Re: The3 result system (miss, weak hit, strong hit):
This sounds like it would be a lot of fun in my group. Especially for light-hearted comedy games, or creepy horror games, both which would rely more on narrative tone and timing and less on random number generation.

Re: fiction first game.
This sounds like it would solve a lot of the problems I have with my current D&D game. It really does feel like the players are just "pushing buttons" on their character sheets, and resolving the same action for the 200th time. The idea of ability coming from the fiction first, instead of from a number on the character sheet, is very refreshing to me.

Re: narrative is not rules-light
That is a very important distinction. Those two things often get blended together.

 

[Parmandur]

I appreciate that PbtA brings a different of energy to TTRPGs than a D&D or not-D&D game does.

 

[J.Quondam]

Haven't played it, but really hope to try Monster of the Week and Stonetop one day, among others.

 

[Umbran]

But from what I've read, it sounds like it puts more emphasis on storytelling and less on combat. And I find that idea very appealing. Don't get me wrong, I love me some D&D...but the combat scenes can get really stale sometimes. I'll have to give it a shot and let y'all know what I think.

Heh, in some implementations of PbtA (like, Masks) combat is storytelling.

 

[SteveC]

It is one of the most popular games that aren't D&D, and has many variations at the moment. I would absolutely recommend trying it to experience other play styles. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend playing Dungeon World, it's a great version to read to learn about how the game is designed and intended to be run. The game I'd recommend is Monster of the Week.

If you want to know about terms like "the fiction" and "play to find out what happens" this is the game system to explore. Even if you don't like it, I think reading and playing it will change how you look at D&D, for the better.