Grading Daily Powers

[Mengu]

If you don't have a magic weapon, though, you need Quickdraw to attack more than two targets, and that assumes you fling the weapons in both hands.

Why? Under light thrown weapon description it specifically says some powers let you hurl several of these weapons at once or in rapid succession.

I would certainly permit a rogue to draw a stack of throwing daggers and toss them in rapid succession, or draw a stack of shurikens and toss them all at once. Of course drawing the stack would be a minor action without quickdraw, but I don't see why quickdraw would be needed to use the power effectively.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Not mentioned yet, but Armour of Agathos has excellent minion-killing abilities.

Cheers

 

[Fedifensor]

It's vulnerability 5 (the cleric who cast it), not radiant. Radiant would certainly make it cooler

Whoops! That'll teach me to actually grab the book to double-check the power before I post...

I'll upgrade it, though having run those numbers. My gut instinct was to do so, but I tried to avoid giving out too many A powers other than a couple obvious ones.

I understand the reluctance to have too many A powers, but this one really is that good.

Better in the paladin's square Or the monster's square while threatened by the fighter.

Depends on what god you worship...

You can retrain at any level so it doesn't really matter what you get at 5th and 9th for this equation. It's more of a 'do you want to do a d10 or get a healing surge' and I suspect the answer depends on how much healing via team mates the fighter has available.

It also depends on how you see your role. A maul fighter trying to imitate a striker will love Brute Strike, while a sword-and-board defender will probably go for the healing instead.

If you have a cleric using Righteous Brand, you probably won't get that hit bonus half the time

Righteous Brand helps one ally, and the cleric should be helping the strikers, not the defender (unless you're a maul fighter, in which case you'll probably take Brute Strike.

3W is the standard damage for Dailies... I don't think comparing it to Reliable helps that much

The first level daily powers actually are [2W] with a bonus effect - Brute Strike gets [3W] because there is no other effect.

Hmm, maybe. I think I'm going to take a step back and look at all of the possible A candidates tomorrow and make sure it's clear what might be eligible.

Sounds good. My take is that an +4 to hit by everyone for a turn, in addition to an effective [3W] damage, is absolutely amazing.

It's not a single player game. Slow rarely lets stops a foe from engaging _someone_. Agree on the 'if it hits', but it doesn't halve if it doesn't so it's no better than 3W I figured and I rate slow really low.

Take a look at Prime Shot - the ranger gets the bonus if he's the closest to the target. If you're the closest character to the target, and not in range for an OA, then chances are the slow effect will keep that foe from engaging someone.

I've seen it not used at all 3 times, miss completely one time, and used wastefully (on guys that a daily was overkill on) once. Color me unimpressed. I do agree it's the best archer choice, but that doesn't make me think it's _good_

Then you've watched people with bad dice luck, or who waited too long to bring it out. It can miss completely, but the odds aren't very high if you're optimized for ranged combat and taking advantage of Prime Shot. And since you take the better roll, it either misses completely or hits perfectly. The damage is strong enough to put a serious dent in normal monsters, but not enough to be overkill on a fresh monster (besides minions, of course).

Elites and Solos really don't do that much damage, Weaken is cool, but it's not powerful. If this had a Miss 'Half damage' line I would rate this decently though since a little over 3W + Weaken is definitely on par with the Baseline.

A young white dragon (level 3 solo brute) can drop a 1st level character in one round with three successful (non-crit) attack rolls. 2 claws plus bite average out to 29 hp, which goes up with good damage rolls or a crit on one of the attacks. I fail to see how solos "really don't do that much damage".

So, I was thinking explicitly of this being used against a Solo to maintain combat advantage, exposure to zones & conjurations, or trigger OAs. Why would it only be useful against elites?

The majority of solos are dragons, who have reach and dragon breath. They don't need to shift.

Except anyone with AoE attacks is unlikely to be standing adjacent to an ally he wants to slide, honestly.

Close blast and close burst.

Yeah, Flaming Sphere is my favorite - that said it does eat up a bunch of actions and can hit allies potentially so it's not quite as convenient as Guardian of Faith. Better damage (except against undead) though.

While it can hit allies, you choose where you move it. As long as the party is working well together, this shouldn't be an issue.

I don't see any language to suggest that interpretation, though it's possible that might be intended.

It depends on whether you read it as "prone and immobilized, until its next turn" or "prone, and immobilized until its next turn".

 

[keterys]

It also depends on how you see your role. A maul fighter trying to imitate a striker will love Brute Strike, while a sword-and-board defender will probably go for the healing instead.

Oh, sure - but back to the assumption that the powers are being used by those they're intended for

Righteous Brand helps one ally, and the cleric should be helping the strikers, not the defender (unless you're a maul fighter, in which case you'll probably take Brute Strike.

If there's a melee striker, true 'nough.

The first level daily powers actually are [2W] with a bonus effect - Brute Strike gets [3W] because there is no other effect.

You might want to doublecheck - there are more 3Ws (or equivalent, or better) than 2Ws

Take a look at Prime Shot - the ranger gets the bonus if he's the closest to the target. If you're the closest character to the target, and not in range for an OA, then chances are the slow effect will keep that foe from engaging someone.

*shrug* Assumes the mob isn't able to do appreciable ranged and is more than 6 from a target. That's an underwhelming selection of events in my experience, and even if the Ranger kicks it off first round of the combat when folks are at max range it may excessively limit the melee PCs to avoid getting within range of the target. I'm willing to concede I might be underrating it, but slow gets pretty picked on (with good reason) as an effect type.

Then you've watched people with bad dice luck, or who waited too long to bring it out. It can miss completely, but the odds aren't very high if you're optimized for ranged combat and taking advantage of Prime Shot. And since you take the better roll, it either misses completely or hits perfectly. The damage is strong enough to put a serious dent in normal monsters, but not enough to be overkill on a fresh monster (besides minions, of course).

For example, in Scalegloom Hall, a good use for it never came up. It was never particularly needed in any of the early fights, the wyrmpriest was nowhere near enough to anyone else, and the dragon was alone. In a moathouse adventure it wasn't used on the relatively easy fight outside and the tough fight inside people were too spread out.

The person who missed I think rolled like a 7 and 8... it happens.

A young white dragon (level 3 solo brute) can drop a 1st level character in one round with three successful (non-crit) attack rolls. 2 claws plus bite average out to 29 hp, which goes up with good damage rolls or a crit on one of the attacks. I fail to see how solos "really don't do that much damage".

Said white dragon has +6 to AC. If he's shooting for AC 17, he has a 50% chance of hitting. He has to hit with both attacks (25% chance) in order to trigger the bite, for its own 50% chance... so there is a 1 in 8 chance it'll do that much, yep. And he's one of the hardest hitting solos. On average, a weaken on him will prevent about 5 damage. Woo.

The majority of solos are dragons, who have reach and dragon breath. They don't need to shift.

What do reach and dragon breath have to do with avoiding zones, conjurations, and flank? Or anything at all to do with shifting, for that matter?

It is true that dragon's breath is far less useful if you can't line it up on multiple targets and shifting is one of the easy ways to slowly line those up as you recharge... but I don't think it matters as much for this discussion.

While it can hit allies, you choose where you move it. As long as the party is working well together, this shouldn't be an issue.

Depends what you're fighting. If you're fighting non-Large opponents it often cuts off flank, which could matter quite a bit to the rogue.

It depends on whether you read it as "prone and immobilized, until its next turn" or "prone, and immobilized until its next turn".

I don't believe it does. The default duration of prone is 'Forever'. It's "cured" by standing. Prone until next turn doesn't prevent standing anymore than being poisoned prevents using ointment to remove it.

 

[small pumpkin man]

*shrug* Assumes the mob isn't able to do appreciable ranged and is more than 6 from a target. That's an underwhelming selection of events in my experience, and even if the Ranger kicks it off first round of the combat when folks are at max range it may excessively limit the melee PCs to avoid getting within range of the target. I'm willing to concede I might be underrating it, but slow gets pretty picked on (with good reason) as an effect type.

You cannot run while slowed. (Well, you can, but you cannot increase your speed above two), so the limit is more than 4 from a target.

 

[Mistwell]

I've seen split the tree be an encounter winner with a stealthy elven bow ranger. It's far better than you are giving it credit for, if you just do the odds on an objective basis. Heck, ANY two-attack powers are better than you seem to be grading them.

Just because the folks you have seen use it had bad luck doesn't mean those times were representative of the power.

 

[keterys]

I've seen split the tree be an encounter winner with a stealthy elven bow ranger. It's far better than you are giving it credit for, if you just do the odds on an objective basis. Heck, ANY two-attack powers are better than you seem to be grading them.

Just because the folks you have seen use it had bad luck doesn't mean those times were representative of the power.

I think two-attack powers are quite good. I mean, I like all forms of 'AoE' and it's just a very selective AoE (Burst 1, enemies only, max 2 targets)

In fact, if Split the Tree could be used at all on a single target and did half damage on Miss I'd find it top notch.

I just don't find it much of an improvement over, say, Two-Fanged Strike (Encounter 1). At 60% hit chance and (1 or 2)d10 + 8 damage (~6th level) with +1d8 hunter's mark, TFS nets 19 damage to a single target and Split the Tree nets 21.5 to a single target and 17.8 to a second, which is totally respectable, but it's also a daily and you often just _can't use it_ (or shouldn't, minions) cause of target restrictions. It's no Blinding Barrage. I personally find it closer to Acid Arrow. But eh, I may be in the minority there

Anyhow, I'll obviously increase it since I'm underscoring it but I'm having serious difficulty comparing it to any of the higher scored ones.

Making another pass through all of them now with folks' recommendations.

 

[Mengu]

But eh, I may be in the minority there

I think you are.

The main reason I like it is because it reduces miss chance from
60% to 36%
50% to 25%
40% to 16%
So it's approximately a +5 to hit for the AC ranges that matter. There aren't very many daily powers that let you hit two targets with Stat+5 vs AC, doing 2[W]+Stat damage. It is totally in line with the Ranger's role of dealing fast and high damage. A hidden benefit is that this attack has a 9.75% crit chance on *two* targets.

Maybe it's not an A power due to a lack of effects, but it's definitely somewhere in the B range.

 

[keterys]

Yep, that's where I put it. I'm going to get started on daily 5s today, but if I don't get enough time to finish today I probably won't get it in for a couple days (I run D&D the next two nights and I'm busy during the day). Just a warning.

 

[Cadfan]

Usual complaints, you can't compare easily between classes and roles, a controller-like power given to a defender is worth more than Yet Another Fireball given to a Wizard, etc.

Cascade of Light- gives single target damage to a class that mostly lacks it, and can add up to quite a lot of damage if the same is failed. Worth at least a B. You can get some extra damage with some damaging zone powers, but that doesn't really factor into my final decision that much because it usually requires multiple dailies to be fired off at once.

Brute Strike- Worth at least a B-. Everyone laughs at it because its just 3[W]+Str with Reliable, and that seems like its half as much of a Daily as other classes which usually get 3[W]+Stat and an added effect. But, consider who's using it. Fighter's [W]s tend to be much bigger than everyone elses. With a maul, this power does 6d6+str damage at level 1.

Split the Tree- this is where your "grade down if no Miss: Half or Reliable" rule starts to fall through. Some powers haven't got a Miss: Half or a Reliable entry, but usually they have some other effect to help assure their accuracy. In this case, Split the Tree gives you two attack rolls, and you pick the better of the two. This is a very significant increase in accuracy. Against a target that is hit on a 11+, you get the same overall expected damage as you would from a power which read, "4[W]+dex+dex, Miss: Half." The damage is spread around a little, which lessens the knock out effects, but the overall damage is basically the highest available of any level 1 daily power in the game (except for wizards with tightly packed foes). I'd give this an A.

Hunter's Bear Trap- not that great, but not bad for an archery Ranger. Ongoing 5 is worth as much as an extra W, guaranteed, and sometimes is worth more. Would you rate this as poorly if it read, "3[W]+Dex, target is slowed, save ends, Miss: Half damage?" Because that's actually worse.

Easy Target- awkward power. Its almost better to miss with it in order to guarantee yourself a second round of combat advantage, instead of relying on the target to save. I'd rate it even more poorly just because of that annoyance.

Armor of Agathys- Good, but it requires you to go into melee reach of your foes with a class that isn't cut out for that. And the Infernal warlock, the one most likely to not mind, already has enough non stacking temporary hit points not to get excited. I'd just give it a B.

Dread Star- compatible with the Star pact paragon path (and very little is). Probably worth a B.

Curse of the Dark Dream- sliding enemies is just so darn useful. I'd give it a B.

Flames of Phlegethos- Total damage is very high on a hit. On a miss, it does minor damage. Worth at least a B.