Grappling questions in general...

[PrinceZane]

Greetings,
I haven't really messed around with grappling and my knowledge of the topic is basically nonexistant. I understand the "how to" of grappling, but that's about it.
- After succsesfully grappling someone is it better to take the next turn to pin them, or to go ahead and smack em around
- When dealing damage, what is the best method? Can you use any weapons or is focusing on unarmed damage best?
- If unarmed is the way to go as per damage in grappling, could a monk flurry or no?

That's about it for now. Rule backups and explainations are prefered, all feedback appreciated and thanked

 

[Legildur]

- After succsesfully grappling someone is it better to take the next turn to pin them, or to go ahead and smack em around

It depends on your relative strengths. Pinning is great tactic to use on spellcasters as you can elect to prevent a pinned person from talking, hence no spells with verbal components. Also, a pinned person would need to make 2 successful grapple checks to escape a grapple completely and so pinning someone is great for preventing their escape and letting your buddies lay into them.

- When dealing damage, what is the best method? Can you use any weapons or is focusing on unarmed damage best?

Monks can choose to do normal damage or non-lethal damage with a grapple check without penalty. But for some characters they would be better to attack with a light weapon, even at the -4 penalty as unarmed damage is usually only 1d2 or 1d3 (depending on size) and non-lethal damage at that.

- If unarmed is the way to go as per damage in grappling, could a monk flurry or no?

No. A Flurry of Blows involves unarmed strikes. So monk would make as many grapple checks to deal damage as his BAB allowed. However, he could choose to use FoB if he were willing to use the 'strike an opponent' grapple option as an unarmed strike is a light weapon and therefore can be used in a grapple. But note that you cannot use 2 light weapons in a grapple.

 

[PrinceZane]

So essentially, it would be better to grab the opponent and hold them as firm as possible while everyone else laid into it. It sounds as if the job is not of the grappler to do the damage, but to give everyone else "target practice" so to speak.

With this in mind, is a pinned opponent considered prone, flat footed, or what?

 

[Hypersmurf]

With this in mind, is a pinned opponent considered prone, flat footed, or what?

He's not prone, and he's not flat-footed... but he suffers a bunch of penalties.

1. He does not threaten an area, so no AoOs.
2. His Dex is treated as 0, which means a -5 Dex penalty to AC.
3. He takes an additional -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks from other creatures (that is, apart from the guy pinning him).

So a Fighter in Half Plate and Large Shield (AC 19) has an effective AC of 10 while pinned. (10 +7 Armor +2 Shield -5 Dex -4 Pinned)

But a Dex 22 Rogue in Leather Armor (AC 18) has an effective AC of 3 while pinned. (10 +2 Armor -5 Dex -4 Pinned)

Being pinned is much nastier for the people who rely on Dex for their AC

-Hyp.

 

[argo]

Conceptually the key thing to understand about grappling is this: a properly built grapple twink can select any single opponent his size or smaller and remove that opponent from the combat at the expense of also removing himself from the playing field.

So, tactically speaking the point of grappling is select a single high-priority target (wizards are a prime choice) and trade your actions for theirs while your teammates either clean up on the other opposition or gang up on the guy you are holding. What you won't be doing is killing the opponent anytime soon since your damage sucks, even if you're a monk.

Rules-wise everyone engaged in a grapple looses their Dex bonus against opponents not in the grapple making them a prime target for sneak attacks. Remember that this cuts both ways, even if you started the grapple you loose your Dex too so be careful if there are anemy rogues about. Pinning an opponent means that they are imobilized, but not helpless (no coup de grace), which makes it an excellent choice against spell casters and the like whos only option will be a silent, stilled spell. Pinning is also good for making sure your opponent doesn't escape since he needs to beat you on two checks to get free.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... which makes it an excellent choice against spell casters and the like whos only option will be a silent, stilled spell.

Impossible for a sorcerer, too.

-Hyp.

 

[youspoonybard]

Not IMPOSSIBLE... : )

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not IMPOSSIBLE... : )

Well, by Core 3.5, it is.

-Hyp.

 

[PrinceZane]

So, as a whole, which would you think to be better grappler class wise. I'm thinking fighter, with focus on str and grapple feats, or monk (with the str and grapple feat focus). I can't make up my mind. In my head I'm seeing fighter, just because I've played them more, with str/grapple feats, and getting enlarged permanent...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Monk, all the way.