Great Cleave against illusions or figments

[Kazoo]

Would a cleave or great cleave work to hit multiple mirror images, or other illusions or figments that vanish when you hit them?

 

[Thanee]

I don't think so.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Huhm

Same question: Would Whirlwind take out all mirror images? I think not

 

[kreynolds]

Would a cleave or great cleave work to hit multiple mirror images, or other illusions or figments that vanish when you hit them?

Technically, yes, as each of the images is a target and when you hit one, it drops. Then again, technically no, as Cleave and Great Cleave both state that you may continue your attack when you deal enough damage to a target to drop it, and with Mirror Image, you don't ever actually deal any damage to any of the images, as they simply "wink out". However, in the spirit of the rules, I think "hell no" you can't cleave, great cleave, or whirlwind Mirror Image. But that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Why not?

I don't see why not, in fact how is an image with no substance any harder to cleave through than a flesh and blood opponent. I think the spirit of this feat implies skill in taking out several opponents if you can do it fast enough. As a matter of fact I would think that images and illusions would be particularly vulnerable to this feat based on what I've read.

 

[Darklone]

Ok, then explain this to me. Assume someone has a whip and is proficient with it. He surely can do things you couldn't. But even you could swing a 15ft whip around (without hurting someone) and see that the whip passes through most mirror images. Would the whip then destroy all illusions?

I have to admit my char did similar things

 

[Otterscrubber]

Possibly

That is a great idea in my opinion, perhaps one of the few uses i can think of for a whip? Although it could be interpreted in a few ways, one being that the images dodge out of the way to avoid being hit at all. Or duck, or a similar methods, i think you see my point. Swinging a whip around would be easier to avoid than a concentrated attack by a character.

Good idea though and I would reward that kind of thinking at least once before ruling against it in the future.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

Of course whirlwind attack would work. If they hit the image within 5 feet, it dissapears. Why is this even a question, it is like asking can a fighter with multiple attacks per round can dispell more than 1 mirror image.

So whirlwind attack is good for every image within 5 feet most of the time. I would rule great cleave was the same.

 

[Cross]

I seem to remember...

Wasn't there a Sage Response posted about this a while back? I could swear I read it on one of the many threads...from what I recal, it said that Cleave (and by extension Great Cleave) did not function against Figments created by Mirror Image because there is no target to drop.

Perhaps it was on the Wizards Boards...there's a thread there that details a buch of Sage Responses. Of course, I'm not at my home machine right now, so I don't have the link handy....

- Cross Nightwalker
- Acquisitions Expert for the Onyx Claw Consortium

 

[Mahali]

No, Cleave and Great Cleave do not trigger when hitting an illusion. Mirror Image was the specific example the Sage said no too and here is why.

CLEAVE [General]
You can follow through with
powerful blows.
Prerequisites: Str
13+, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points, killing it, etc.), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature in the immediate vicinity. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack.
The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the
previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.