Great Villain Showdown: 2nd Round [Results Posted]

Tonguez · Jul 31, 2005

so when do we see results and round 3?

Gomez · Jul 31, 2005

Tonguez said:
so when do we see results and round 3?

I will get them posted today.

DarrenGMiller · Jul 31, 2005

Is there any chance that when this one is over, we could see a "Great Hero Showdown" and a "Great Sidekick/Companion Showdown"?

DM

Mad Hatter · Jul 31, 2005

Particle Man said:
By that logic, children never grow up because when they do, they are no longer children. Liquids never freeze because when they do, they are no longer liquids. Solids never melt because when they do, they are no longer solids. Living things never die because when they do, they are no longer living things.

What? That makes no sense and it isn't what I said. When children grow up they are adults and no longer children. So the state of being a child no longer exists for that individual. When a solid melts, it is now a liquid. It has changed states. I am looking to the totality of the villain as compared to another. Was Vader cool? Yes, yes he was. But then he was redeemed. The Borg Queen, however, was not. So in terms of villainy, the Borg Queen wins because she isn't redeemed. When two things are similar you compare differences or variables. For the the Vader/Queen face-off, it was the fact that he rejoined the light side of the force. Vader stopped being a villain when he well stopped being a villain and became Anakin Skywalker again.

Melkor Lord Of ALL! · Jul 31, 2005

Mad Hatter said:
What? That makes no sense and it isn't what I said. When children grow up they are adults and no longer children. So the state of being a child no longer exists for that individual. When a solid melts, it is now a liquid. It has changed states. I am looking to the totality of the villain as compared to another. Was Vader cool? Yes, yes he was. But then he was redeemed. The Borg Queen, however, was not. So in terms of villainy, the Borg Queen wins because she isn't redeemed. When two things are similar you compare differences or variables. For the the Vader/Queen face-off, it was the fact that he rejoined the light side of the force. Vader stopped being a villain when he well stopped being a villain and became Anakin Skywalker again.

For you, it seems that best villian is the one who is most evil. But other voters may disagree. Villain with redeeming qualities can be very interesting.

Particle_Man · Jul 31, 2005

Mad Hatter said:
What? That makes no sense and it isn't what I said.

It may not have been what you meant, but here is what you said: "Villains aren't redemmed because when they are, the are no longer villains." By the reading of that sentence, you are saying that it is impossible for a villain to be redeemed. That is the main interpretation of the phrase "Villains aren't redemmed" that you wrote. Not that redeemed villains are lesser villains, but that villains cannot be redeemed (or at least, that redeemed folk cannot have truly been villains in the first place).

Now what you meant seemed to be that "unredeemed villains" are better villains than "redeemed villains", presumably because their "Down Time" as good folk erases their "ultimate villain status", when compared to a villain that does not have any such "Down Time". Fair enough, but I (and others) disagree.

Anyhow, did the Borg Queen ever win so much as a single battle in which she made a personal appearance? I know the Borg did a lot of times, when we did not see the Queen, but whenever we saw the Borg Queen, well, that was it. Picard and his bunch or Janeway and her bunch proceeded to kick the Queen's ass.

Now look at Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back. Vader wins in the light saber duel. Luke doesn't win the combat, he leaps to his death (or so he thinks) in order to avoid getting "turned" to the dark side. Han Solo gets turned into a popsicle. Vader was also cool enough to "invite" Han Solo to dinner. Vader is just better at being a villain than the Borg Queen was.

That Vader gets redeemed in RotJ is no more a reduction of his cool villain status, while he is a villain, than the fact that Vader was an annoying kid/teenager in TPH or AotC.

I stand by my prediction that it all comes down to Darth Vader vs. The Joker.

Mad Hatter · Jul 31, 2005

Melkor said:
For you, it seems that best villian is the one who is most evil. But other voters may disagree. Villain with redeeming qualities can be very interesting.

Of course, I was just saying why I chose her when someone else offered a justification. My reasoning in no way nullifies or invalidates someone else's reasoning. And you are right, I base villainy on the biggest bad ace who takes no prsioners and offers quarter and mercy only when it leads to bigger and better ace kicking. That is entirely just me.

Particle Man: To me, a villain redeemed is a good guy who was once bad. A villain is a villain until he is redeemed. A child is a child until it grows up. Vader's villainy isn't erased, the bad stuff doesn't go away. His mark is forever. But when comparing two apples, you got to find the bruise that makes one apple better than the other. Vader just happened to be redeemed and the Borg Queen not. So she is the better villain. And your view is just as good as mine, we just differ. I respect that, I am down with that.

I was never trying to discount your view or make you see the error of your ways. I was just offering a reasoning of why I chose her as some others had.

As for Borg Queen victories. By the great law of the good guys, of course she'll never win. Most villains won't win when it really counts, unless the writer has some great epiphany. Vader didn't win in his most crucial of moments, i.e. killing Luke. I base her wins and villainy on the fact that the species she and other queens have assimilated are many many. And to tell the truth, she's had the Federation by the short hairs many times. It took alot of effort and resources to defeat her in TNG. Voyager had the forces of techno babble.

Jai Kel · Jul 31, 2005

1. Agent Smith (The Matrix)
2. Great Cthulhu
3. Professor James Moriarty (Sherlock Holmes)
4. Wicked Witch of the West (Wizard of Oz)
5. Galactus
6. Napoleon the Pig (Animal Farm)
7. Lady Deathstrike (X-men)
8. Wile E. Coyote
9. Lord Voldemortn
10. Boba Fett ( Star Wars)
11. Sauron (Lord of the Rings)
12. Dr. Fu Manchu
13. Bhaal (Forgotten Realms)
14. The Master (Dr. Who)
15. Satan (The Exorcist)
16. Prince John (Disney's Robin Hood)
17. Hal 9000
18. Godzilla
19. Khan Noonian Singh
20. Jason Voorhees (Friday the 13th movies)
21. T1000
22. Randall Flagg (The Stand)
23. Mr. Burns
24. Strahd Von Zarovich (Ravenloft)
25. Mr. Edward Hyde
26. Magneto
27. Anubis (Stargate SG-1)
28. Destro (GI Joe)
29. Mr. Glass (Unbreakable)
30. The Kurgan (Highlander)
31. Darth Vader
32. Hannibal Lector