Great weapon fighter is a "trap"? Forked Thread: I don't optimize.

[Goumindong]

As the incentive to attacking the fighter is already much greater than the incentive to attack the striker you are only granting the opponent annother bonus without any need to grant it. And in doing so you waste party ressources.

The opponent chosing the striker over the S&B fighter gains no advantage as far as hit chance is concerned, provokes an unnecessary (as he gains no extra benefit that makes it worth provoking this attack) attack from the fighter and most likely loses his own attack because he get's pushed away during this attack.

The GW fighter only wastes hp by making himself easier to hit, the S&B fighter saves these hp by either making the enemy miss him or preventing the enemy from hitting his friend.

1. No. Rangers and Rogues do far more DPR than sword and board fighters even when sword and board fighters are making combat challenges every round(they only get one). They have fewer hit points, less effective healing surges, and fewer healing surges.

This means that its, most of the time, still better to attack the strikers. That isn't to say the -2 penalty is bad, its quite good. But it is to say that the end result is not nearly as strong as you think. Already we have people complaining that the -2 penalty just isn't enough.

2. If this is the case then your strikers are not flanking with you. since its impossible to push an enemy you are flanking out of range of your striker. It is also likely to isolate the striker, or, if you are isolating a single enemy with the striker between it and the leader/controller, allow that enemy to easily move on your controller/leader while forcing you to ignore him or collapse your line.

All of these things bleed resources.

3. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on the situation and party makeup. If the shield fighter has a confined space that he can use to keep enemies in front of him, and ready attacks to keep pushing them back, then yes. If you have a bunch of melee fighters who are concentrating on dealing damage to enemies its unlikely he will be able to.

 

[wayne62682]

Hmm that's another thing to consider: The rogue should be flanking with me, so that limits Tide of Iron because if I push the foe away, he's not flanking anymore. The encounter power that lets an adjacent ally shift 2 squares can be helpful, though, because if he's not flanking he can use it to flank.

I guess I need to just sit down and think of what appeals to me more, and just roll with that.

 

[MwaO]

You don't have a shield and that lets you concentrate further on deterrence, picking up bracer's of mighty striking for another 2/4/6 average damage.

S&B fighters can use Bracers of Mighty Striking. You're allowed one magical item per slot...a non-magical shield doesn't count against that...

 

[Mengu]

Hmm that's another thing to consider: The rogue should be flanking with me, so that limits Tide of Iron because if I push the foe away, he's not flanking anymore. The encounter power that lets an adjacent ally shift 2 squares can be helpful, though, because if he's not flanking he can use it to flank.

There is typically so much movement going on that, the odds are your rogue will have to move to get in position every round anyway. Tide of Iron shouldn't hinder him too much. And you shouldn't always use Tide of Iron anyway just because you can. Use it when you feel there is a need.

 

[Nifft]

And you shouldn't always use Tide of Iron anyway just because you can. Use it when you feel there is a need.

Exactly. Tide of Iron is awesome for pushing critters away from an Archer, Warlock or Wizard. You're not required to use it every round.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

Exactly. Tide of Iron is awesome for pushing critters away from an Archer, Warlock or Wizard. You're not required to use it every round.

Cheers, -- N

Especially if the fighter takes a lot of charge feats and items that help with basic attacks, sometimes its good to just run in and do damage.

 

[Nifft]

Especially if the fighter takes a lot of charge feats and items that help with basic attacks, sometimes its good to just run in and do damage.

Agree. If there's a Tactical Warlord in the party, someone should optimize for basic attacks -- actually, now that I think about it, that may be the exact purpose of the Great Weapon Fighter. He hefts a maul and wears Bracers of Mighty Striker.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

Agree. If there's a Tactical Warlord in the party, someone should optimize for basic attacks -- actually, now that I think about it, that may be the exact purpose of the Great Weapon Fighter. He hefts a maul and wears Bracers of Mighty Striker.

Cheers, -- N

Hmm, the idea of a charge fighter sounds pretty good. A heroic tier, take power attack, powerful charge, and the bracers of mighty striking.

When you charge, you now have a -1 to attack rolls and gain +7 damage.

Further, you can use readied charges to gain full use of combat superiority.

As a fighter, move in and then ready a charge when your opponent's try to move in. As they get close, you charge, getting massive damage. Further, if they try to continue their move, you get an OA. You get big damage and it prevents enemies from moving past you to hit your friends.

 

[theNater]

With the -2 penalty for not hiting you, the average striker will have the same AC as you with your shield (fighter in scale + heavy shield = AC 19 / ranger with 18 Dex and hide = AC 17 add a -2 penalty and it's effectively AC 19 too). Thus it's no advantage for the monster to try to hit the striker but only a disadvantage because you get a free attack.

I feel a need to mention that a ranger with 18 dex and hide armor is not an average striker. Rangers are the only strikers proficient with hide by default, and a two-weapon ranger is not very likely to have an 18 dex.

Rangers in hide with a 13 or 14 dex are going to be pretty common, with ACs of either 14 or 15.

Rogues will often have a dex of 18, but they'll be in leather, for an AC of 16.

Warlocks have the roughest time in terms of AC, with their int usually being around 14 and leather armor, giving them a 14.

In the case of a fighter with an AC of 19, all of these folks are going to continue to be tempting targets even to a marked enemy.

 

[MwaO]

Agree. If there's a Tactical Warlord in the party, someone should optimize for basic attacks -- actually, now that I think about it, that may be the exact purpose of the Great Weapon Fighter. He hefts a maul and wears Bracers of Mighty Striker.

But that doesn't actually make for a huge shift in damage, it just means a little extra. Because you can wear Bracers of Mighty Striking with a shield - it just can't be a magical shield.