D&D 5E Greater Invis and Stealth checks, how do you rule it?

[Flamestrike]

What makes you unheard is the hard part. That isn't defined in rules and that would determine how I ruled it. The group I DM for stays close together and is more a kick down the doors and be loud and boisterous at the tavern group. Not a stealth and deception group. Invisible paladin in heavy armor they probably hear you. A monk and a rogue if you dash they probably hear you. Half speed they don't regular speed maybe an acrobatics check vs their passive perception.

Cool. Lets leave the house rules out though so we dont confuse people, and stick with the Rules as written re Hiding.

 

[eayres33]

Cool. Lets leave the house rules out though so we dont confuse people, and stick with the Rules as written re Hiding.

We could but we could also read the OP which asks how you rule it. Plus RAW isn't a thing it's always ruled as interrupted at best.

 

[Maxperson]

What makes you unheard is the hard part.

I haven't said which one is hardest. That will be circumstantial. Sometimes it's going to be unseen, other times unheard, and sometimes both.

That isn't defined in rules and that would determine how I ruled it. The group I DM for stays close together and is more a kick down the doors and be loud and boisterous at the tavern group. Not a stealth and deception group. Invisible paladin in heavy armor they probably hear you. A monk and a rogue if you dash they probably hear you. Half speed they don't regular speed maybe an acrobatics check vs their passive perception.

Sure. Circumstances make all the difference.

 

[Flamestrike]

We could but we could also read the OP which asks how you rule it. Plus RAW isn't a thing it's always ruled as interrupted at best.

Yeah, but can we start from a position of the actual Rules for invisible creatures and hiding/ sneaking/ becoming hidden?

See my post re the Wizard and the Orc about 3 posts up for the RAW of how it works.

 

[eayres33]

We can but that doesn't get us past rule 0 and everything being up for interpretation.
I agree how I see the rules as written your example of the Wizard and the Orc follows my understanding of RAW regarding invisible creatures hiding and stealth.
But RAW leaves a lot of open spaces that need to be filled.

 

[Maxperson]

We can but that doesn't get us past rule 0 and everything being up for interpretation.
I agree how I see the rules as written your example of the Wizard and the Orc follows my understanding of RAW regarding invisible creatures hiding and stealth.
But RAW leaves a lot of open spaces that need to be filled.

RAW also includes this...

"If you are hidden-both unseen and unheard-when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses."

If you can become unseen and unheard through other means than trying to hide, you are still hidden.

 

[Flamestrike]

We can but that doesn't get us past rule 0 and everything being up for interpretation.
I agree how I see the rules as written your example of the Wizard and the Orc follows my understanding of RAW regarding invisible creatures hiding and stealth.
But RAW leaves a lot of open spaces that need to be filled.

Oh for sure man.

But an invisible creature moving around in a normal combat is not one of them. For example you said:

Invisible paladin in heavy armor they probably hear you. A monk and a rogue if you dash they probably hear you. Half speed they don't regular speed maybe an acrobatics check vs their passive perception.

Those are all situations covered by the RAW on hiding.

1) Invisible paladin in heavy armor? Likely dumped Dex, does not have Stealth (and has disadvantage from the armor). When he tries to Hide (via the Hide action), he likely fails.
2) Monks and especially Rogues already have abilities that let them [Dash AND Hide] all in the same round (or Dash AND Dash again)
3) There is no 'half movement Stealth' rule in 5E. The movement penalty is already accounted for via needing to use the Hide action (instead of the Dash action).

• A Wizard trying to be stealthy while invisible moves 30' (Hide action, and then moves)
• A Wizard NOT trying to be stealthy while invisible moves 60'. (Dash action and then moves)
• A Rogue 2+ trying to be Stealthy while invisible moves 60' (Hide action, Cunning action Dash action, then moves)
• The same Rogue not trying to be stealthy moves 90'
• A Monk 2+ trying to be Stealthy while invisible moves 80' (Hide action, Step of the Wind Dash action, then moves).
• The same Monk not trying to be Stealthy moves 120'

See how it works? The action economy of requiring the Hide action, represents an opportunity cost that slows down someone trying to be Stealthy. Someone who isnt trying to be Stealthy can always move faster than someone who is trying.

And thats the RAW. No need for 'rulings' on that or Acrobatics checks etc.

 

[eayres33]

Oh for sure man.

But an invisible creature moving around in a normal combat is not one of them. For example you said:



Those are all situations covered by the RAW on hiding.

1) Invisible paladin in heavy armor? Likely dumped Dex, does not have Stealth (and has disadvantage from the armor). When he tries to Hide (via the Hide action), he likely fails.
2) Monks and especially Rogues already have abilities that let them [Dash AND Hide] all in the same round (or Dash AND Dash again)
3) There is no 'half movement Stealth' rule in 5E. The movement penalty is already accounted for via needing to use the Hide action (instead of the Dash action).

• A Wizard trying to be stealthy while invisible moves 30' (Hide action, and then moves)
• A Wizard NOT trying to be stealthy while invisible moves 60'. (Dash action and then moves)
• A Rogue 2+ trying to be Stealthy while invisible moves 60' (Hide action, Cunning action Dash action, then moves)
• The same Rogue not trying to be stealthy moves 90'
• A Monk 2+ trying to be Stealthy while invisible moves 80' (Hide action, Step of the Wind Dash action, then moves).
• The same Monk not trying to be Stealthy moves 120'

See how it works? The action economy of requiring the Hide action, represents an opportunity cost that slows down someone trying to be Stealthy. Someone who isnt trying to be Stealthy can always move faster than someone who is trying.

And thats the RAW. No need for 'rulings' on that or Acrobatics checks etc.

That is all how you read RAW, and is probably the most common reading of RAW. And I "see how it works" but I also read the part where you make it your own game. So where RAW how most people interpret it makes zero sense you make the rulings you see fit.

 

[Flamestrike]

That is all how you read RAW, and is probably the most common reading of RAW. And I "see how it works" but I also read the part where you make it your own game.

Yeah for sure man. Make it your own game, and rule how you want to. Ignore rules or make it up as you go along. It's your game.

Im just making the observation that the OP's situation is covered by the rules. Clearly and unambiguously.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah for sure man. Make it your own game, and rule how you want to. Ignore rules or make it up as you go along. It's your game.

Im just making the observation that the OP's situation is covered by the rules. Clearly and unambiguously.

As long as you ignore the RAW I just quoted above, sure. However, if you accept both as RAW, and since neither contradicts the other, what you describe is simply the most common way to achieve hidden. In the OP's situation, it can be reasonably ruled that at 100' away(or 50' or whatever), the Monk is far enough away to be unheard, in which case he becomes hidden.