Green Ronin announces 3rd Era

[Angel Tarragon]

Very happy about this. Can't wait to buy material from Lulu.

 

[JoeGKushner]

M'eh.

If they said they were updating it to Pathfinder... good.

If they said they were collecting Races Compendium, good. Classes Compendium, good.

Books I already own in print?

Not seeing the love.

 

[Angellis_ater]

M'eh.

If they said they were updating it to Pathfinder... good.

If they said they were collecting Races Compendium, good. Classes Compendium, good.

Books I already own in print?

Not seeing the love.

Wow - sorry, but talk about being shortsighted and ego-centred here. This isn't for those of us who already own these books. It's for the people who don't! For them, this is great news!

 

[kenmarable]

No offense, but actually I think it matters quite a lot.

How do you know that? Because of one single post made by Scott Rouse on a messageboard? Made at a point when a lot of things were posted that never actually came to pass?

That seems like a pretty loosey-goosey way to terminate an important license, particularly one in which many people have significant financial stake.

That's why it matters.

In the practical sense, WotC's intent is clear. They have removed the old d20 STL from the site completely so at the very least no new products can use it. And Scott Rouse has stated that they want publishers to stop using the logo and license. It's gone.

So whether any announcements have been "official enough" doesn't matter a great deal, but it would take WotC 5 minutes to make it much more official (or just rely on the existing post and the fact that most publishers are regular posters/readers of EN World and claim that was notice).

But on the academic side, it is an interesting issue. Reading the version I have saved (version 6, which I think was the latest), there aren't any provisions for revoking the license in it's entirety - just revoking for individual companies that breach. All WotC can do is "update" the license. In fact, it even states that you can continue distributing existing products with the logo even after the license is changed. So, its debatable whether or not any companies have to remove the logo at all for their existing products.

However, businesses have to operate on the practical side of things, not the academic/theoretical. So, in that regard, it is smart for Green Ronin to update their products with a new logo. If had material out there, I certainly wouldn't destroy it all (unless it was costing me to keep that material around, such as physical products in a warehouse not selling and then it's a good excuse to clean house and blame WotC). It certainly is too shaky in my opinion to actual destroy product and/or pull items from RPGNow and such if you can still make money off of them. But updating them with a new logo and getting them onto Lulu is a smart move because it not only protects you from whatever WotC decides to do, and it generates some new interest and hopefully some sales without a great deal of effort. I know I might start looking at filling some gaps in my library through Lulu.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

No offense, but actually I think it matters quite a lot.

How do you know that? Because of one single post made by Scott Rouse on a messageboard? Made at a point when a lot of things were posted that never actually came to pass?

That seems like a pretty loosey-goosey way to terminate an important license, particularly one in which many people have significant financial stake.

That's why it matters.

Ok, so here's how I "know":

First, there's this thread on the WotC boards:
GSL News - Wizards Community

Relevant note:

Q) A six-month "sell-off" period has been mentioned with reference to stock carrying the old d20 logo. Is the d20 STL actually going away, or does this sell-off period apply only to those who adopt the GSL?

A. The d20 STL will be terminated. There will be a sell-off period of six months for products produced under the d20 STL. This is true for both pdf and print products. We’re estimating our own backlist stock to be sold through within 3 to 4 months, so allowing six months to other publishers feels fair. Allowing 6 months for pdfs is really pretty generous and we are already in conversations with publishers and PDF sellers like DrivethruRPG.com and RPGNow on how they can make these changes as easy as possible.

There's also of course the Q&A bit that was posted here at ENWorld:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...license-interview-youve-all-been-waiting.html

There's also this bit of news from the WotC website back in April of 2008:
D&D 4th Edition Game System License

This royalty-free license will replace the former d20 System Trademark License (STL)...

It's up to the publishers to keep abreast of what's happening in relation to things like the d20 STL. To my knowledge, WotC is under no obligation to inform people of the license changing. In fact section 9 of the d20 STL that I'm reading says:

Wizards of the Coast may issue updates and/or revisions to this License without prior notice. You will conform in all respects to the updated or revised terms of this License.

The decision for the 4e GSL to _replace_ the d20 STL would count as a revision to the license I think.

Plus, WotC can terminate the license at any point it feels like anyway. Which, again, they've done so.

None of this stuff is new or controversial. The people that have a d20 STL all know about the termination of the license and if they don't? I think that speaks volumes about the company.

You (or other people) might not be _happy_ with it, but... why are you making a big deal about it now? If a company wants to, they can convert their existing materials from d20 STL over to OGL. Nothing stopping them from doing that. They're just not going to be able to use the d20 Logo and they're not going to be able to use specific Wizards of the Coast IP.

Yes, a lot of people might have a "financial stake" in the whole issue of the d20 STL and the GSL. But at the end of the day, WotC seems to have taken a "it's not our problem" stance. What is the point of terminating the d20 STL and putting out the GSL that they have?

Q. What are WotC’s main goals regarding the GSL? Do you believe that third-party products will drive sales of the D&D core rulebooks?

A. The goals with the GSL include supporting our product line, growing the industry, and supplying consumers with a rich offering of RPG products meant to be used with the 4th Edition of D&D . And, of course, we want to drive sales of the D&D core rulebooks.

There were months of flamewars about this, and at the end of the day... WotC can do what they want. It's their property. Everyone that signed up and used the d20 STL knew that WotC could change the terms whenever they felt like it.

If people want to keep arguing about this, I think it'd be more appropriate to do it in some other thread. I've only posted the answers here that I have because it seems like a pretty cut and dried thing to me. It's done.

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And to try and not be responsible for derailing this thread...

Hopefully, this is just a first step for Green Ronin. I might be off base, but it seems to me to be a nice way for them to position themselves to start producing 3rd Ed material again if they think there's enough of a market to support it.

3rd Era basically allows them to create a brand, kinda like Paizo is doing with the whole Pathfinder thing.

Locating their current 3rd Ed material under the new brand means that they've got the potential to tap into some "brand loyalty". If there's enough of a market, I imagine they'll update their materials if need be.

One reason they might hold off, is to see how well Pathfinder does. If it has a large enough market, it's always possible that the "update" that they'd do to their older books would be to the Pathfinder version of the d20 rules.

If Pathfinder doesn't do well but there's still enough demand for "straight" d20 books, then they might update it to the latest d20 SRD rules.

 

[Set]

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Risking getting sued for not doing so would be crazier, IMO.

Since I missed Aasimar & Tieflings and the Assassin's Handbook the first time around, I'm looking forward to a chance to snag them now.

 

[rgard]

Great news. There are several GR titles I missed. Again, great news!

 

[Tetsubo]

While I am glad that Green Ronin is doing this, I am also saddened by the knowledge there will be no new 3.5 material in the future.

 

[Aus_Snow]

While I am glad that Green Ronin is doing this, I am also saddened by the knowledge there will be no new 3.5 material in the future.

if there's demand we might consider it.

linky

Vote with yer wallets. As always.

 

[JoeGKushner]

linky

Vote with yer wallets. As always.

Interesting advice but what if you've already got the goods from various sales or heck, when it originally came out?