Jacob Lewis
Ye Olde GM
I have tossed it down the elevator shaft many times. But it still keeps finding its way out. (I think Vecna might have a Hand in this.)
Greyhawk Elevator Pitch?
L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
Sword of Spirit
Legend
Something worth bringing up is that Greyhawk's setting is divided into actual nations bordering each other. The Forgotten Realms has a few nations scattered here and there, but most of the Heartlands and the North (ie, the main areas focused on) is an implausible scattering of city-states and isolated villages surrounded by wilderness. Really? That has always bugged me about Faerun, and Greyhawk's Flanaess is just better in that regard.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Implausible like northern Italy in the 9th to 15th centuries?
One characteristic of Greyhawk is it was created by someone with no knowledge of real world history or geopolitics.
Telvin
Explorer
Eye, I am sure he did!
Parmandur
Book-Friend
While you are right that there is nothing particularly wrong with the Sword Coast as presented, characterizing Gygax as ignorant of history and geopolitics is equally incorrect.
Aldarc
Legend
I don't think that anyone asks this, especially given (1) the Greek etymology of "angel," and (2) the long history of "angels" in the West Asian religions (out-of-which came Christianity) that predate the Hellenistic thought you list. (Also, I'm fairly certain that the Chaldean Oracles and Neoplatonism are date to the time after early Christianity.)
David Howery
Hero
it's been said several times here, but it's an important point... GH is very much a 'DM does a lot of the work' kind of setting. There are a lot of short nation/city notes, quite a few adventure hooks scattered among various supplements, but most of the detail work is left to the DM...
Yaarel
He Mage
I dont Gygax is ‘ignorant’ about history.
I think he intentionally mixes history up, to reinvent a fictional fantastical version of history.
For example, the Monster Manual. The ‘Cloud Giant’ is actually the same giant in the ‘Jack and the Bean Stalk’ tale. But rather than present it via mythological accuracy, Gygax intentionally mashes it up, even with a picture portraying East Asia imagery.
The British folkbelief book, An Encyclopedia of Fairies, inspired many of his ideas. Consider the ‘Drow’, an invention by Gygax. In the book, the drow are a Scottish fairy, a subterranean land spirit, small in size, and working metals. (Ultimately, the Scottish name drow derives etymologically from Old Norse trǫll.) But rather than as is, Gygax intentionally remixes it with an Old Norse text relating to the ‘Dark Alfar’, and misreads this text as if to mean ‘black’ skin. The white hair is his own personal flourish, to make a more fantastical creature. Lolth comes from a romp thru a Jewish midrash relating to Lilith. An obscure Scandinavian folkbelief says Lilith (the first wife of Adam who left Adam and remained immortal) gave birth to all the trǫll, thus explaining the trǫll within a biblical context. Gygax reinvents Lilith as a demonic mother of his drow, who are now a kind of ‘elves’.
And so on. Gygax willfully romps thru the folkbeliefs across any and every spiritual tradition of any and every ethnicity.
Ok, Gygax might have been ignorant about medieval weapons and armors (‘longsword’, ‘ring mail’, etcetera), but he also didnt care.
In my view, I wish Gygax would avoid using reallife names when presenting fictional inventions. If the creature is fiction, the name should be too, I feel. To avoid misrepresentation and to avoid ‘appropriating’ other cultures.
In the case of modifying the name Lilith to ‘Lolth’, Gygax does good. He clearly shows Lolth does not represent the midrash about Lilith, even tho she inspired her.
To find creative inspiration in anything and everything, is what artists do. Fictional names for fictional creatures would solve any nagging issues.
I think he intentionally mixes history up, to reinvent a fictional fantastical version of history.
For example, the Monster Manual. The ‘Cloud Giant’ is actually the same giant in the ‘Jack and the Bean Stalk’ tale. But rather than present it via mythological accuracy, Gygax intentionally mashes it up, even with a picture portraying East Asia imagery.
The British folkbelief book, An Encyclopedia of Fairies, inspired many of his ideas. Consider the ‘Drow’, an invention by Gygax. In the book, the drow are a Scottish fairy, a subterranean land spirit, small in size, and working metals. (Ultimately, the Scottish name drow derives etymologically from Old Norse trǫll.) But rather than as is, Gygax intentionally remixes it with an Old Norse text relating to the ‘Dark Alfar’, and misreads this text as if to mean ‘black’ skin. The white hair is his own personal flourish, to make a more fantastical creature. Lolth comes from a romp thru a Jewish midrash relating to Lilith. An obscure Scandinavian folkbelief says Lilith (the first wife of Adam who left Adam and remained immortal) gave birth to all the trǫll, thus explaining the trǫll within a biblical context. Gygax reinvents Lilith as a demonic mother of his drow, who are now a kind of ‘elves’.
And so on. Gygax willfully romps thru the folkbeliefs across any and every spiritual tradition of any and every ethnicity.
Ok, Gygax might have been ignorant about medieval weapons and armors (‘longsword’, ‘ring mail’, etcetera), but he also didnt care.
In my view, I wish Gygax would avoid using reallife names when presenting fictional inventions. If the creature is fiction, the name should be too, I feel. To avoid misrepresentation and to avoid ‘appropriating’ other cultures.
In the case of modifying the name Lilith to ‘Lolth’, Gygax does good. He clearly shows Lolth does not represent the midrash about Lilith, even tho she inspired her.
To find creative inspiration in anything and everything, is what artists do. Fictional names for fictional creatures would solve any nagging issues.
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