We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Mordenkainen's Movie Madness! Starring The Grandmaster of Flowers (who may be Bahamut) in....The Seven Secrets of Kung-Fu Death!
Calling anything after the first Gord book a "novel" is overly generous.
I have always felt that if you meet someone who is still unable to acknowledge that Gygax had any faults ... just sentence them to reading the whole Gord series.
It's interesting that the people who keep arguing that there should be no Greyhawk are those that are heavily invested in the idea that (1) other people should not be allowed to have what they want, and (2) the pushback would actually be from fans of the setting, as opposed to the continued drumbeat of, "Fans of Greyhawk can't have Greyhawk because I, someone who doesn't like Greyhawk, keep saying that all true fans of Greyhawk don't want it!"
It's especially weird in a thread that explicitly states that a primary purpose of a rebooted Greyhawk is to attract new fans.
I mean, I suppose people could show up to threads about Nentir Vale, or Dark Sun, and start caterwauling about how no true fan of those settings would actually want it to be rebooted. But that would be rude, and unlikely to be a productive use of anyone's time.
I think the most mind boggling thing about Greyhawk and 5e is just that; how much have been scooped up and reapprpriated.
Who would even like Greyhawk these days? Apparently the fan base if it had not been plundered. If all of these characters and ideas are so great that we take them, feature them and make them central to modules, books, spells artifacts and so on, why wouldn’t we like Greyhawk?
I think the idea that it has all been done before is so frustrating because it’s all still being used! It’s not been done before, it’s still half ass being done!
Now the question I have is this: could this all be marketing fodder for a Greyhawk book? “Explore Oerth and learn the origins of Tasha, Vecna, Mordenkainen…adventure in their world if you dare!”
Ah well, to dream. But as I said before, we might be looking at this all wrong. Product lines don’t have to go after only one variety in a line. Doing this book does not mean other settings are off the table.
I am pessimistic about the chances, sadly.
"You know the names... Now find out where they came from!" Is a pretty good elevator/sales pitch.
Again, nostalgia is big these days.
I don't think that Greyhawk fans shouldn't be given what they want, I just don't think the setting can really succeed, and WotC probably doesn't want to take any risks on it. Unfortunately, it has some valuable IP so they don't want to just give it up either.
I have just never seen what of Greyhawk makes it worth bringing back for new players such as myself. The primary thing that I think matters with a Fantasy world is its aesthetic, which enabels and flavors the stories in that setting. However, the aesthetics of Greyhawk are really just generic Fantasy Aesthetics with a likewise generic Dark Fantasy twist. While in the 70s and 80s, the idea of Greyhawk was still fertile, and S&S + Dark Fantasy was a relatively young genre. But in 2022, what does Greyhawk offer that other settings don't?
I'm not a fan of the Forgotten Realms, but I don't see how I couldn't do literally anything and everything in Greyhawk in the Forgotten Realms, or even better, as a homebrew product. And when I look at 3rd Party, this aesthetic is covered by Kobold Press, Midnight, Symbaroum, and so on. So why would I, as someone who has no nostalgic connection to Greyhawk, want to play it when literally before I was born the idea was already stale, and has only gotten more stale with all the innovations in the genre sense.
Now, if Greyhawk returned back with a grunge punk vibe, and really played up the dungeonpunk aesthetics or really just did anything, literally anything other than white people in armor and elves drawn the same way they have been for 40 years, I'd be excited for it. But as it stands, Greyhawk is very much a generic Fantasy setting that offers new players absolutely nothing interesting at all that other settings don't offer (alongside their own stylish variety).
This isn't to take a crap on Greyhawk btw. I'd quite like to see a beautiful Castle Greyhawk adventure that really blows my socks off, or a modern take on the Caves of Chaos. But if all that is being proposed is just more of the same Greyhawk, well, I don't think there is enough market interest for that to be done.
I guess that is a way to look at it—-a lot of people are interested in authenticity. I don’t think it gets more authentic than the game world of the guy whose name is on the books.It's kind of weird. Given how much we recycle older IP, it would seem almost like brand mismanagement to NOT relaunch Greyhawk for the 50th.
That said, I was going to comment on this from earlier-
This is what is mind-boggling to me. The setting can't succeed? Based on what metrics? At worst, you'd be looking at a Strixhaven or Theros. A setting that sells a few books and doesn't otherwise have a lot of current 5e games within it. At best, it could ride a wave of nostalgia and youtube and twitch videos. Most likely it would be somewhere in-between.
But just remember the initial survey from WoTC when 5e was launched. There were three tiers of settings-
A. Eberron, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, and the Forgotten Realms.
B. Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Spelljammer.
("Fairly Steep Drop-Off")
C. Every. Other. Setting.
Now, notice something? We are short three of the classic settings that people want. And one of those ... is Greyhawk. Moreover, there continues to be a lot of support for Greyhawk- from numerous websites that list the canon and the lore, to the quarterly Oerth Journal to multiple wikis to numerous prominent supporters that are also game developers to the multitude of maps (interactive and not) including the excellent work of Anna Meyer ... the list goes on. Greyhawk, despite even being allowed on the DM's Guild, continues to be incredibly well supported through numerous sources.
And I will continue to say that the majority of the pushback that I have seen is not from the oldest fans, nor is it from the youngest 5e fans (the ones that first start playing D&D with 5e), but is instead with ... well, others.
Because one thing I have noticed, over and over again, is that the the kids joining today shouldn't be underestimated. They are amazing. Eventually, they start to ask questions- like ... who is Leomund? Why does Bigby care about a hand? Where did that joke about Vecna's head come from? Why are there now multiple books from Mordenkainen?
The upcoming generation of new D&D players is pretty awesome, and they deserve a Greyhawk of their own. I would love to see what they will do with it.