D&D 5E Greyhawk?

meomwt

First Post
But dragonborn? I can't see them anywhere.

I'm not sure what Dragonborn heritage is supposed to be, but Greyhawk has had many instances of half-dragons, especially as Greyhawk dragons like nothing better than living amongst humans - and fathering children, more often than not.

So if they can be reconciles as, for example, the offspring of two half-dragons, then you are half-way there, I shouldn't wonder.
 

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Aaron L

Hero
I get what you mean.

Although I also must say that my efforts to get into Greyhawk have been as a DM and not as a player. I have run the Saltmarsh series and very much enjoyed the aspect of tayloring the specifics to suit myself and my group.

I think that's what my critique of the way the publisher presents the setting speaks to. I pick up a Greyhawk manual and it seems bland. I pick up a classic module that has Greyhawk as the default setting and I'm inspired. I think most DMs these days look at the campaign setting book first and if their interest is piqued might go for the module/adventure path.

That said, if WotC would, as others suggest, give us a good adventure path set in Greyhawk, that might let the setting sell itself. Just make sure it's got the appropriate gritty feel as opposed to the high fantasy/comic bookish feel of FR.

I have always believed that the reason why the Forgotten Realms is "the favorite setting of D&D" always had far more to do with TSR and WotC's aggressive marketing and pushing of the Realms, rather than any inherent value of the two settings.

Another thing Greyhawk always did for me was give off a tangible vibe of weirdness, like it really was medieval Earth, just... off. Twisted. Which totally fit with its place as an actual alternate version of Earth (and Urth, Yrth, Arth, etc... )

All those old OD&D and 1st Edition AD&D drawings and illustrations looked just like medieval woodcuts to me, with a real weirdness to them, and I'm talking WEIRD as in the oldschool Lovecraftian meaning of the word, not the modern way the word is used to just mean "odd." Weird as in an affront to reality, something that just shouldn't be. The old Greyhawk illustrations and descriptions really made me feel like it was describing an alternate Earth with a layer of barely contained madness just underneath the surface of its reality, which was where all these twisted monsters sprang from, and we were getting to see the woodcuts from this twisted alternate Dark Age Earth with knights and real wizards fighting monsters and abominations of nature.

I even "got" Alignment Languages and they totally made sense to me, fitting the feeling of general weirdness of Greyhawk. Alignment wasn't just a game tool, it was a set of philosophical/political/magical secret societies that PCs belonged to (like this twisted magical world's own versions of the Bavarian Illuminati or Freemasons,) tied to the Gods, Demons, Devils, and other supernatural Powers, and even the Classes (which were themselves another axis of philosophical/professional/magical secret societies, tied in various ways to the Alignment societies,) and when you joined they taught you their secret sings and special cant. Where did you go for training for your next level? Another higher level member of your Alignment/Class secret society.

And if you ever left your Alignment, you offended the supernatural Powers who had been giving you their favor (and they withdrew some of that favor in the form of Hit Points, advancing Saving Throws, and spells and magical Class abilities... in other words, lost levels) and the Powers stripped the knowledge of the Alignment society's secret cant from your mind, and then you had to work extra hard to prove yourself in your chosen new Alignment society and re-establish yourself with the Powers of that new Alignment (and that was why it took extra experience to regain your levels.) That was why it was specifically called out that asking a person what their Alignment was was considered the height of rudeness; you couldn't ask someone their Alignment if it was just a game tool the characters had no concept of.
 

Aaron L

Hero
I'm not sure what Dragonborn heritage is supposed to be, but Greyhawk has had many instances of half-dragons, especially as Greyhawk dragons like nothing better than living amongst humans - and fathering children, more often than not.

So if they can be reconciles as, for example, the offspring of two half-dragons, then you are half-way there, I shouldn't wonder.

The Draconians of DragonLance are given as examples of the Dragonborn of Krynn (with alternate abilities than the breath weapons of the standard PHB version of the race,) so I don't think Dragonborn would really fit very well with Greyhawk. Things that blatantly exotic just... wouldn't really mesh with the setting very well. It's much more gritty and low-key than that, and winged, firebreathing dragonmen as PCs just aren't Greyhawk flavored. I would really hope they wouldn't try to just shoehorn them in.
 

fjw70

Adventurer
The Draconians of DragonLance are given as examples of the Dragonborn of Krynn (with alternate abilities than the breath weapons of the standard PHB version of the race,) so I don't think Dragonborn would really fit very well with Greyhawk. Things that blatantly exotic just... wouldn't really mesh with the setting very well. It's much more gritty and low-key than that, and winged, firebreathing dragonmen as PCs just aren't Greyhawk flavored. I would really hope they wouldn't try to just shoehorn them in.

I don't see dragonborn being any less "gritty" than other D&D races. With an adventure based on a crashed spaceship and a demigod ruler I think just about anything could work in Greyhawk.
 

GameDoc

Explorer
I don't see dragonborn being any less "gritty" than other D&D races. With an adventure based on a crashed spaceship and a demigod ruler I think just about anything could work in Greyhawk.

I recall when 4e was released, reading a blog by a teacher who was going to teach some of his students who preferred to stay inside at recess how to play. Being a long-term gamer he was going to use Greyhawk as the setting and decided to simply have dragonborn come from someplace off the main map and having recently arrived to the Flaness by sea.
 

Aaron L

Hero
I don't see dragonborn being any less "gritty" than other D&D races. With an adventure based on a crashed spaceship and a demigod ruler I think just about anything could work in Greyhawk.

Ah, but the demigod cambion tyrant Iuz is an exceptional individual, and the crashed starship in the Barrier Peaks is an extraordinary circumstance; both are unique. Those are hardly the same as having an entire PC race, hundreds of thousands of dragonmen, wandering around the Flanaess.

As I have said before regarding an overabundance of magic; making the fantastic too common reduces its impact and renders it mundane, no longer extraordinary, and ultimately boring. Including a PC race of dragonmen reduces something that should be extraordinary to an everyday, commonplace occurrence.

In Greyhawk, elves and dwarves are supposed to be somewhat exotic; adding dragonmen to the mix is nudging things quite a bit too far.
 
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fjw70

Adventurer
Ah, but the demigod cambion tyrant Iuz is an exceptional individual, and the crashed starship in the Barrier Peaks is an extraordinary circumstance; both are unique. Those are hardly the same as having an entire PC race, hundreds of thousands of dragonmen, wandering around the Flanaess.

As I have said before regarding an overabundance of magic; making the fantastic too common reduces its impact and renders it mundane, no longer extraordinary, and ultimately boring. Including a PC race of dragonmen reduces something that should be extraordinary to an everyday, commonplace occurrence.

In Greyhawk, elves and dwarves are supposed to be somewhat exotic; adding dragonmen to the mix is nudging things quite a bit too far.

Not sure I agree with your assessment of the situation, but having dragonborn PCs does not mean there are hundreds of thousands of dragonborn running around. The PC could be unique or part of a very small group.
 

Omega9999

Carnyfex Dynastarum
I hope they just don't put Dragonborn in the Flanaess by means of a cataclysm or what. There is a whole continent out there. They should come from...umh Lynn?
 

TGryph

Explorer
I just put them in the Hepmonaland, replacing the Tuon and just using the same culture. A war between Dragonborn and Yuan-Ti appeals to me...

TGryph
 

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