[Grim Tales] Spellcasting Questions

[Yuan-Ti]

A couple questions, so far...

• Is there Spell Burn for casting 0 Level spells? Is it 1d3 for a campaign where spell burn is d6 per spell level?
  
• Am I reading this right? A Magic Adept with Spell Caster Level 1, casting a Level 1 spell, will fail 45% of the time?
• There is no mention in the rules of spell preparation. I take this to mean that a character simply has access at any time to any spell he has learned.
• Why is the Wild Adept required to cast spells as if they were one level higher?

More to come, and some questions on whether I am breaking anything to make some of the changes I am considering.

P.S. Having to choose a "category" when you start a new thread here is stupid...

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

A couple questions, so far...

• Is there Spell Burn for casting 0 Level spells? Is it 1d3 for a campaign where spell burn is d6 per spell level?

• 
  
  Don't have my book in front of me, but this came up once and we just off-the-cuff ruled it a 1d4. One of the things I love most about the GT magic system is that its so easy to make changes in effect without really changing the mechanic. Want common low-power magic so that the mage always has something to do? Just allow cantrips without burn.
  
  

  [*] Am I reading this right? A Magic Adept with Spell Caster Level 1, casting a Level 1 spell, will fail 45% of the time?

  
  Yup. And he'll take burn for it, too. Magic is supposed to be rare in GT. If you created a character that spent every feat they could on improving as a spell caster, they are still inferior at every level to a stock D&D caster. Note, don't overlook the rules for increased casting time in exchange for increase effectiveness.
  
  

  [*] There is no mention in the rules of spell preparation. I take this to mean that a character simply has access at any time to any spell he has learned.

  
  It's assumed that a GT caster will only have a handful of spells, rendering the preparation/memorization process moot. Even if you have large spell lists, I think failure chance and spell burn limit casters enough that advance preparation is too harsh.
  
  

  [*] Why is the Wild Adept required to cast spells as if they were one level higher?

  
  Wulf would have to answer 'why' if you're looking for a design rationale. But increasing the spell level decreases the wild adepts success rate and increases burn, thus putting them at a disadvantage compared to 'practiced' casters.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Thanks for the answers!

Don't have my book in front of me, but this came up once and we just off-the-cuff ruled it a 1d4. One of the things I love most about the GT magic system is that its so easy to make changes in effect without really changing the mechanic. Want common low-power magic so that the mage always has something to do? Just allow cantrips without burn.

My favorite thing about GT is that it is really a toolkit. With *suggested* rules rather than fast ones. I will definitely be altering some bits here and there to fit my campaign and the flexibility makes that easy in a way D&D, for example, does not -- at least for psychological reasons.

Anyway, yes, I was thinking either 1d3, 1d4... or not at all -- and just not hand out a lot of 0 Level spells! They still require a spellcheck, though.

"No really, guys! I can make light appear in my hand... dang! Wait, let me try again!"

Yup. And he'll take burn for it, too. Magic is supposed to be rare in GT. If you created a character that spent every feat they could on improving as a spell caster, they are still inferior at every level to a stock D&D caster. Note, don't overlook the rules for increased casting time in exchange for increase effectiveness.

The increased casting time only adds +1 to the check per time period which, in combat anyway, is generally only going to be a +1. My thinking was to add spell caster level AND attribute mod to the roll. So a PC with Caster Level 1 and Int 16 would get a +4 vs. DC 11. Still going to fail 30% of the time... Or maybe require a feat to get that? (and maybe only with spells equal to your caster level?)

It's assumed that a GT caster will only have a handful of spells, rendering the preparation/memorization process moot. Even if you have large spell lists, I think failure chance and spell burn limit casters enough that advance preparation is too harsh.

Yeah, that's what I figured and it makes good sense to me. But it brings us to...

Wulf would have to answer 'why' if you're looking for a design rationale. But increasing the spell level decreases the wild adepts success rate and increases burn, thus putting them at a disadvantage compared to 'practiced' casters.

Right. But I don't understand why the Wild Talent should be at a disadvantage? I don't see any special advantages he has over the others. Unless it is because he doesn't have to learn spells but has them "revealed" to him by the GM?

And does GM mean "Grim Master"?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

One thing I considered to split the difference between GT and D&D was to allow casters to automatically succeed at casting spells less than their Caster Level (eg, someone with Caster Level 1 wouldn't have to roll for cantrips). A low burn die and careful sculpting of the spell lists would allow for casters that didn't knock themselves out fizzling spells and yet they wouldn't dominate high-level play.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

You guys hashed it out so well between the two of you I couldn't decide what to quote. But I'll just use your initial post and throw in my .02 as a newcomer to the thread.


[*] Is there Spell Burn for casting 0 Level spells? Is it 1d3 for a campaign where spell burn is d6 per spell level?

Yes, and it should be 1/2 the spell burn die.


[*] Am I reading this right? A Magic Adept with Spell Caster Level 1, casting a Level 1 spell, will fail 45% of the time?

Action point, action point, action point. That's what they are there for.

You can also use extra casting time: every step up is +1. Out of combat you'll do ok-- an automatic limiter on "flashy" magic. Even in combat, moving from 1 action to 1 full round isn't TOO bad and certainly isn't out of line for "pulpy" spellcasters.

I also like to use my rules for Ley Lines and Power Nexuses. They work real nice with GT spellcasting because that +1 caster level is so important (or, in the case of a Power Nexus, the actual replacement of caster level).


[*] There is no mention in the rules of spell preparation. I take this to mean that a character simply has access at any time to any spell he has learned.

Au contraire! Look at the Spell Preparation feat in the Feats chapter (Spellcasting subsection). Spell prep allows you to re-roll a spell burn roll you don't like. (Four 1's?! Ack!)


[*] Why is the Wild Adept required to cast spells as if they were one level higher?

Because he can cast both Divine and Arcane spells with the same stat (Charisma) and the same tradition (Wild Talent), instead of having to raise both Int and Wis and raise his caster level in two different traditions.

 

[Fenris]

Wulf,
Where can we, the Grim Tales hordlings, see your rules for Ley lines and Power nexuses?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf,
Where can we, the Grim Tales hordlings, see your rules for Ley lines and Power nexuses?

They've been available for free download from badaxegames.com for, oh, a little over a year now. Look in the ELVES downloads.

They require almost no tweaking to work in GT. Basically, "lose a spell" means, "Spell fails and you suffer spell burn anyway."

If you wanted the whole book (which is also pretty damned good work on my part, if I do say so myself) you can pick 'er up on RPGnow.com or you can buy a hardcopy from Indie Press Revolution. (Try the links in my sig in the first post.)

Wulf

 

[Fenris]

Thanks Wulf,
I wonder why I couldn't find them before, when I think of Grim races I always think of elves first

Really though, thanks.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Thanks for the thoughts, Wulf! Have to admit, I was not thinking about action dice in this context -- nice touch, because it makes spells easier to cast in a crunch, but iffy propositions so they aren't being cast constantly.

It's fun to be working on a campaign with such flexible rules and classes... Bravo, sir! Bravo!

 

[Serps]

Excellent! These rules will fit nicely for the Winds of Magic in a Warhammer campaign.