Half dragons - underpowered?

[mmu1]

So?

Who said anything about getting an amulet of natural armor? In fact, the amulet of natural armor in 3.5 is an enhancement bonus and applies equally to the Half Dragon as it does to anyone else.

How about anyone who doesn't feel like playing a Cinderella whose special powers last minutes at a time or are at risk of going bye-bye the moment Dispel Magic gets thrown around?
Or someone who'd like the party casters to be able to use Dispel Magic on him to remove the effects of enemy spells without a 50/50 risk of losing your most important combat buff?
Or someone without access to 8th level arcane spells or a caster that's going to use an 8th level spell on you at your beck and call?
Or someone who doesn't have the money or the inclination to cart around two different sets of equipment, if the alternate form is a different size?
Or someone who understands how Polymorph spells work, and understands that someone turned into a troll with Polymorph Any Object gets the stats of an average troll, not the stat bonuses of a Troll? (Hey, 6 Intelligence!)

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

What do you do with people who multi class?

Simple, we would adjust the ECL up if the situation warranted it. Luckily my group has not tried to exploit the ruling by switching to a more favorbale class after starting out with a less favorable one to get the lower ecl.

Dirge

 

[FrankTrollman]

Or someone who understands how Polymorph spells work, and understands that someone turned into a troll with Polymorph Any Object gets the stats of an average troll, not the stat bonuses of a Troll? (Hey, 6 Intelligence!)

According to Skip Williams, the 3rd edition Polymorph Any Pbject only raised your intelligence, it couldn't lower your intelligence. So transforming someone into a frog did not come with a free Feeblemind and transforming someone into a Troll didn't make them stupid.

Since the wording on the 3.5 PAO is exactly the same, word for word - I would think that ruling still applies.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

From Polymorph Any Object:

"Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form."

From Polymorph:

"The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores."

Well, Polymorph actually uses the word "gains", and gain is synonymous with increase, so if I polymorph a Dire Bear into a Pixie, by Skip's Law he retains his 31 Str and 19 Con (since receiving the average Pixie scores would not be a gain), but his Dex increases to Pixie-average?

... or is the Sage making stuff up again?

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

... or is the Sage making stuff up again?

I don't honestly know.

This was part of the "Since I can turn people into trees, does that mean that I can make shapeshifters too stupid to turn back to their normal forms?" question. And his answer was no, and that was his reasoning.

I'm not sure that it's a more balanced spell if it can reduce intelligence, actually.

-Frank

 

[Thanee]

Well, Polymorph actually uses the word "gains", and gain is synonymous with increase, ...

Sorry, but I don't think "gains" in this context is meant as increase, at least not in the way you describe it. I don't think there is a choice here, you just get the new stats.

POA says "grants" (Int score) which does sound more like it's meant as a bonus (only)!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't think there is a choice here, you just get the new stats.

I agree completely... but I don't think that that answer should be any different in the case of Polymorph Any Object.

You gain the physical abilities, and it grants the intelligence score... but I don't see that either should only apply if it results in an increase.

If you get polymorphed into a piece of paper, then for the duration of the spell, you're not the world's smartest piece of paper, you're just one more leaf...

-Hyp.

 

[Xavim]

From Polymorph Any Object:

"Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form."

From Polymorph:

"The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores."

Well, Polymorph actually uses the word "gains", and gain is synonymous with increase, so if I polymorph a Dire Bear into a Pixie, by Skip's Law he retains his 31 Str and 19 Con (since receiving the average Pixie scores would not be a gain), but his Dex increases to Pixie-average?

... or is the Sage making stuff up again?

-Hyp.

IMO "Gains" is synonomous with "Attains" and I believe that the Sage ment that you 'gain' your new pixie STR whatever that might be. Thus a Dire Bear polymorphed into a human would GAIN/get stuck with human strength and have to worry about his loss in martial ability. Since with PAO gives the character the new INT score polymorphing them into paper or a brick would leave them utterly witless.

 

[FrankTrollman]

IMO "Gains" is synonomous with "Attains" and I believe that the Sage ment that you 'gain' your new pixie STR whatever that might be. Thus a Dire Bear polymorphed into a human would GAIN/get stuck with human strength and have to worry about his loss in martial ability. Since with PAO gives the character the new INT score polymorphing them into paper or a brick would leave them utterly witless.

That's great, but PAO actually does not use the word "gains" it uses the word "grants" - which has a slightly different meaning.

-Frank

 

[St. Kargoth]

Actually only racial hit die are increased. The hit dice from class levels are not. So the half-dragon favors NPCs or PCs with a lot of racial hit die more than one with class levels.