Half-elf paragons: worth it for an archer?

[Machiavelli]

I am charged with replacing my fun but woefully weak 5th-level character. The party encounters combat frequently, but we are owners (with escorts) of a lucrative iron mine in a somewhat untamed land, so shady business deals are also frequent. I'd like my character creation choices to reflect a keen attention toward social interactions (meaning lots of flavor!) without skimping on combat prowess.

A few ideas were tossed around with my group, including an archer, a druid, and a bard. I don't particularly want to play a bard, and if I were to play a druid, I would prefer to remove the excessive book-keeping involved (see my other thread from a few weeks ago). That leaves me with an archer.

Now, for my archer idea I'm thinking of a half-elf with 1 level of Half-Elf Paragon, and 3 levels of Human Paragon after a level of some martial arcane spellcasting class (duskblade, perhaps?). That qualifies me for the supposedly powerful Arcane Archer (and others, I think?), provides 3 levels of spellcasting advancement (for 5 levels? not terrible), and lets me pick two bonus feats. The downside I see is missing out on 2 points of BAB, which is somewhat mitigated by the +2 to Dexterity from the Human Paragon. Also, I miss the bonus feat I could get if I went for straight-up human, and the 3 fighter bonus feats if I went straight fighter.

However, the Arcane Archer seems flavorless and mechanically *blah*. Imbue Arrow is only good for applying the duskblade spells that will have a pathetically low caster level after taking whatever archer prestige class (Practiced Spellcaster can delay this effect, but only for 4 levels). The other abilities are only usable once daily (meh) or are enhancement bonuses to arrows (good but bland).

Also, I can't seem to find a complete list of duskblade spells, and none of the lower-level spells seem to be usable with Imbue Arrow. Heck, the Player's Handbook II doesn't even list the 0-level spells, despite having them on the class ability chart.



I'd like to pull this all together, if I can, but I can always fall back on a Human Ranger 2/ Fighter X. Advice?

 

[Seeten]

Arcane Archer is bad.

Half-Elf is bad.

Human Paragon is not so hot.

All in all, if you are trying to min-max anything, you're failing so far.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, that's what I was afraid of. I have a knack for finding a whole lot of "wow, cool!" things, then pulling them together and ending up with "this would be alot cooler if it didn't have zero positive impact on the party".


Here, this is what I have so far, though I haven't had much time to pour over its strengths and weaknesses:

Lvl BAB FeatSource   Class             FeatName                Ability                    Caster,Spells
1   +0  base/class | Half-Elf Paragon: .../...               | Elf vision               | ~
2   +1  class      | Duskblade:        ...                   | Favored enemy            | (1)Duskblade,3/2
3   +1  base       | Human Paragon:    ...                   | Adaptive learning        | (1)Duskblade,3/2
4   +2  class      | Human Paragon:    ...                   | ~                        | (2)Duskblade,4/3
5   +3  class      | Duskblade:        Combat Casting        | ~                        | (3)Duskblade,5/4
6   +4  base       | Human Paragon:    Practiced Spellcaster | +2 Dexterity             | (6)Duskblade,6/5
7   +5  class      | Fighter:          ...                   | ~                        | (7)Duskblade,6/5
8   +6  class      | Fighter:          ...                   | ~                        | (8)Duskblade,6/5
9   +7  base       | Exotic W. Master: ...                   | C.-Quarter Ranged Combat | (8)Duskblade,6/5



Half-Elf Paragon 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Duskblade 2/ Fighter 4/ Arcane Archer 9/ Exotic Weapon Master 1

BAB +18
2 bonus feats
3 fighter bonus feats
1 permanent class skill
Duskblade spellcasting level 4th

 

[Nifft]

The Duskblade spell list is at the end of the Duskblade class description section -- after the sample character. Very poor layout IMHO.

Who is telling you that the Arcane Archer is strong? If you're playing 3.0e (where DR/+5 exists, and where arrow enhancement stacks with bow enhancement), it's reasonably strong. If you're playing 3.5e, it's weak to the point of worthless.

IMHO, the only Paragon worth considering is the Human Paragon (well, Half-Dragon and Dwarf are okay too, and Halfling and Half-Orc in certain specialized builds). But Human is the strong one.

Why do you want to take Half-Elf in the first place? If you're not targeting Diplomacy, Half-Elf is sub-optimal.

Cheers, -- N

 

[ivocaliban]

Personally, I prefer the Order of the Bow Initiate PrC in the Complete Warrior for archers. If that's not available I'd stick with the Ranger/Fighter combination. If you really want the paragon class I'd take the the Human Paragon and leave the Half-Elf alone. The BAB loss is still a significant one in the long run for an archer.

As for a Duskblade/Arcane Archer...I don't think it would be worth it. The Arcane Archer is one of the worst PrC available, in my opinion. Wearing all that heavy armor might not hinder you from casting spells, but it would still incur a penalty on the Dex an archer needs. The Duskblade's spell list doesn't really serve an Arcane Archer very well, either.

EDIT: After seeing your build for your character I'm convinced you're just looking to make a character that needs a separate sheet of paper for listing Class and Level!

 

[Nifft]

Here's a killer archer:

Elf Cleric -- Domains: War, Travel
1/ Cleric 1 - Point-Blank Shot, [Weapon Focus: Bows]
3/ Cleric 3 - Precise Shot
6/ Cleric 6 - Rapid Shot
9/ Cleric 9 - Scribe Scroll
12/ Cleric 12 - Improved Initiative or Craft Magic Arms & Armor or Craft Wondrous Item
15/ Cleric 15 - Quicken Spell
18/ Cleric 18 - Improved Precise Shot (with the +5 from your Manual of Dexterity, you'll qualify)

At low level, you will buff yourself with spells like divine favor to boost your attack and damage, at high levels you'll choose divine power to boost your BAB. Quicken Spell will let you throw up a divine favor and make a full attack in the first round of combat. Eventually you'll be able to cast a quickened divine power ... mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!

The Travel domain is there so you have some mobility options. You'll want to scribe a lot of scrolls of dimension door and teleport. Even some quickened scrolls (unlike a wand, you can actually benefit from quicken on a scroll)... eventually.

Why this Cleric is better than an Arcane Archer: greater magic weapon. Cast it on your bow, and you'll get the same enhancement bonus, plus your bow will be harder to sunder.


Oh, and you're also a Cleric, so you can heal, raise the dead, break enchantments, remove fear, turn undead, cast plane shift four levels before a Wizard, and generally kick butt.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Machiavelli]

Elves are fruity. They should be consumed and digested, not role-played, but they hog some of the cool prestige classes. Half-elves still have "Elven Blood" but sidestep the fruitiness, especially when they have 3 human paragon levels. It's a flavor thing, meaning it's completely and utterly counterproductive to this build. What can I say, force of habit?

As for the arcane archer, I'm probably imagining things.

So... hit me with more archers, I'm all ears (not pointy ones, just ears).

 

[Machiavelli]

Okay, so how about Human Ranger 2/ Fighter X, moving into OotBI and Exotic Weapon Master? That close-quarters ranged combat ability is very attractive for the encounters I'm expecting (caverns we discovered branching off of the mine, dense forests, and other tight spaces).

Any ideas for increasing my options beyond "I shoot again"? That was half the point of the duskblade/arcane archer idea. I tend to shy away from clerics, on the grounds that the party already has one, but if a cleric is the best way to gain variety, I'll do it.

 

[satori01]

My house rule for the Arcane Archer is it gives an increase in spell casting level for every level except the first level. You might check with your DM and see if he would go for that variant.

Half Elf cleric archer is still doable, you just need to worship an elven god. The elven god of archery, Thorondir something or other may be a good choice. Elf domain gives you Point Blank shot, War domain gets you Weapon focus: Longbow.
Multiclass wise Ranger works pretty well with cleric.

9 levels of ranger nets you Rapid Shot, Manyshot and Evasion. 11 Levels of cleric nets you Harm.

There is a PrC in Complete Psionic that turns a Mindblade into a Mind Arrow. That might be fairly interesting.

 

[Nifft]

Ah, if you're open to variant Arcane Archers, may I pimp recommend this one?

http://enworld.org/showthread.php?t=67172

It's seen some play-testing, in my game and several others.

Cheers, -- N