Halfling Rogues - Are they at a Disadvantage?

[SDOgre]

What am I missing, why can't your halfling rogue just use a short sword?

Yeah, I went through that too. It's not clear.

The PHB says (p.220) says small characters can't use two handed weapons and when they use a versatile weapon they have to use it two handed.

So with that thinking a halfling should be able to use a longsword in one hand (a weapon that's almost as long as he is).

I felt that this violated the spirit of the rules, not just the spirit of logic. So I checked the premade rogue halfling that came with KotS. Guess what he uses? A Dagger.

Wouldn't he use a shortsword if he could?

So I think of it more like 2E.

But I'm definitely not satisfied with this.

 

[Sashi]

No offense, but you're wrong. Completely. How can it violate the spirit of the rules when it is the rules?

The rogue in KotS uses daggers because rogues get +1 to hit with daggers. Which is easily worth the damage tradeoff in the dice (compare greatsword vs greataxe/maul)

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Yeah, I went through that too. It's not clear.

The PHB says (p.220) says small characters can't use two handed weapons and when they use a versatile weapon they have to use it two handed.

So with that thinking a halfling should be able to use a longsword in one hand (a weapon that's almost as long as he is).

I felt that this violated the spirit of the rules, not just the spirit of logic. So I checked the premade rogue halfling that came with KotS. Guess what he uses? A Dagger.

Wouldn't he use a shortsword if he could?

So I think of it more like 2E.

But I'm definitely not satisfied with this.

A longsword is a versatile weapon, so a halfling would have to hold it in two hands, the equivalent of a human using a greatsword. A halfling cannot use a longsword in one hand.

And no, a rogue wouldnt necessarily use a short sword because he gets a bonus +1 to hit with a dagger.

 

[FireLance]

So with that thinking a halfling should be able to use a longsword in one hand (a weapon that's almost as long as he is).

A longsword is a versatile weapon. If a halfling wants to use one, he has to use both hands.

I felt that this violated the spirit of the rules, not just the spirit of logic. So I checked the premade rogue halfling that came with KotS. Guess what he uses? A Dagger.

Wouldn't he use a shortsword if he could?

For that extra +1 to hit. For some encounter and daily powers, accuracy is more important than damage because the additional effects you get on a hit are worth it.

 

[keterys]

1 damage per W for shortsword or +1 attack and ranged attacks with daggers?

Give me daggers, every time.

Rapier is worth consideration, however.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

1 damage per W for shortsword or +1 attack and ranged attacks with daggers?

Give me daggers, every time.

Rapier is worth consideration, however.

I use a rapier and daggers, that way I get the bonus to damage when I want, and the bonus to hit whenever I want.

 

[Thasmodious]

And, just to be clear - the halfling can use a rapier, too.

 

[SDOgre]

A longsword is a versatile weapon, so a halfling would have to hold it in two hands, the equivalent of a human using a greatsword. A halfling cannot use a longsword in one hand.

And no, a rogue wouldnt necessarily use a short sword because he gets a bonus +1 to hit with a dagger.

I didn't look up the longsword. You're right. It's versatile.

So okay, I get that it's not an oversight by WotC. They wanted halflings to be able to use weapons like scimitars one handed.

I'm just left saying... What the heck? Never before could small characters use weapons that big one handed. It's a definite change in game logic from all the previous editions.

I'm just not diggin it. I don't like these kinds of changes that are made for game balance when they are so illlogical. Why can't humans use greatswords one handed?

Bah. Visions of Monkey Grip dancing in my head....

 

[Gloombunny]

1 damage per W for shortsword or +1 attack and ranged attacks with daggers?

Give me daggers, every time.

Rapier is worth consideration, however.

QFT. +1 to hit is better than one step up in damage dice, even taking crits and multi-[W] powers into consideration. Two steps up is a much better tradeoff, so really, rogues are best with daggers or rapiers, IMO. Short sword is kind of the red-headed stepchild of light blades.

 

[Saitou]

QFT. +1 to hit is better than one step up in damage dice, even taking crits and multi-[W] powers into consideration. Two steps up is a much better tradeoff, so really, rogues are best with daggers or rapiers, IMO. Short sword is kind of the red-headed stepchild of light blades.

There was a rather large thread in the WotC CharOpt boards on the Dagger vs Rapier issue.

The short of it is that Daggers hit more, but do less damage. But if you want to optimize Rapier damage, it takes several more feats and doesn't really kick in till Epic Tier (Light Weapon Mastery).

Daggermaster is some scary stuff. Critting on 18-20 at level 11 is more relevant than you might think.