Handle a large number of attacks with Haste spell or PSI Accelerate

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I need some insight and suggestions as to handle Haste spell and PSI Accelerate.


Currently I have a PSI using the Accelerate and Metamorphosis power to turn into a Thri-kreen which gets 5x natural attacks per round, and Accelerated 10x attacks per round. 4XClaw at 1d4 and 1x 1d4+1 bite. The damage range is 6-21 with 11 being average (if I did the calculations correctly). So, accelerated that is roughly 12 – 42 points of damage. And I am not going to go into the details of the damage dealt out when they turned into a Troll. Usually this person is not a Min/Max, but they did this in a case, where I threw some critters at them, which were way beyond their level – this was an error on my part, so it worked out in the end.


Now, I have made a house rule that limits Accelerate to every other round. This way the number attacks over time are the same, but enables the character to get that extra damage in one rounder appose to two rounds. In addition, this makes the character susceptible the next round to attacks, since they need to rest a full round.


With that being said – I am looking for ideas on how to deal with this issue?


Thanks
JJ

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Accelerate is strictly weaker than Haste. So if you nerf Accelerate, you should nerf Haste too. An archer could turn into a machine gun with Haste. (I agree it should be nerfed, but be fair to psionics. Magic can break the game too.)

By the way, does Metamorphosis actually give you extra attacks like that? (I used to play a thri-kreen ranger/psion, so I just used Accelerate.) Perhaps that's the real problem.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Accelerate is strictly weaker than Haste. So if you nerf Accelerate, you should nerf Haste too. An archer could turn into a machine gun with Haste. (I agree it should be nerfed, but be fair to psionics. Magic can break the game too.)

By the way, does Metamorphosis actually give you extra attacks like that? (I used to play a thri-kreen ranger/psion, so I just used Accelerate.) Perhaps that's the real problem.

I have a Human that Metamorphs into a Thri-Kreen to get the extra attack bonuses for unarmed attacks, sorry if I made this confusing. I associated the two together, but maybe I should not have done that. I was trying to detail as much as I could to describe why I thought about nerfing Accelerate.

Thank you for your insight and input.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I understand that, I'm asking: is it legal for Metamorphosis to give extra attacks? Accelerate normally gives one extra attack (psionicists don't get multiple attacks usually), while Metamorphosis is (apparently) giving four extra attacks.

The broken part of this combo is Metamorphosis.

(My own thri-kreen ranger/psion PC could dish out 13 attacks per round, since he used a cheesy way to specialize with wrist razors. IIRC he had ak it. So he got to apply Strength modifiers to hit and damage, as well as magic bonuses and specialization bonuses. But then it was an utterly insane campaign. We had an archer who could match that performance without any magic or psionics at all, and every other PC was broken too. In my case, the broken part was being a thri-kreen!)

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I understand that, I'm asking: is it legal for Metamorphosis to give extra attacks? Accelerate normally gives one extra attack (psionicists don't get multiple attacks usually), while Metamorphosis is (apparently) giving four extra attacks.

The broken part of this combo is Metamorphosis.

(My own thri-kreen ranger/psion PC could dish out 13 attacks per round, since he used a cheesy way to specialize with wrist razors. IIRC he had ak it. So he got to apply Strength modifiers to hit and damage, as well as magic bonuses and specialization bonuses. But then it was an utterly insane campaign. We had an archer who could match that performance without any magic or psionics at all, and every other PC was broken too. In my case, the broken part was being a thri-kreen!)

To tell you the truth, I am not sure if I understand the rules for Metamorphosis. I thought the character would get the number of attacks of/for the creature turned into. Since the Thri-Kreen gets 5x natural attacks, I thought the character would get the attacks as well, which would be in addition to abilities like Leap and Missile Dodge. But again, I could be understanding the rules for Metamorphosis incorrectly.

 

[Kramodlog]

Metamorphesis says this about attacks of the new form:

The psionicist also gains all physical attacks that form allows,

Seems pretty clear you get all the thri-kreen's claws and bite attacks.

The real problem, if you wanna be a stickler to rules is this:

The psionicist can change himself into anything with approximately the same massas his body

Thri-kreen are more massive than humans.

We always considered that haste doesn't stack with accelerate, cause it was too powerful. Accelerate time(is that the correct name of the power that gives you more rounds in one round?), we always considered it would stack with either, for fluff reasons and mechanic reasons.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Good point about mass. A thri-kreen weighs 450-470 pounds, with much less physical variation in size compared to a human. In fact, thri-kreen are Large in 2e (they probably shouldn't be, but they are).

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Good point about mass. A thri-kreen weighs 450-470 pounds, with much less physical variation in size compared to a human. In fact, thri-kreen are Large in 2e (they probably shouldn't be, but they are).

Hmmm... I didn't think about that, which is a good point. I guess the argument - the character turns into a small/light weight version is out since the weight variation is small as well. This is a tough call.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Metamorphesis says this about attacks of the new form: Seems pretty clear you get all the thri-kreen's claws and bite attacks.

The real problem, if you wanna be a stickler to rules is this: Thri-kreen are more massive than humans.

We always considered that haste doesn't stack with accelerate, cause it was too powerful. Accelerate time(is that the correct name of the power that gives you more rounds in one round?), we always considered it would stack with either, for fluff reasons and mechanic reasons.

Another good point about stacking Haste with Accelerate, which would be insane amount of attacks; however, Accelerate Time (I will have to look, not familiar) could have a good case as to stacking since Environment and character are modified.

Thanks.