D&D 5E Has anyone fought and killed a Tarrasque?

[surfarcher]

I'm not sure about flying boots - are you referring to an optimised anti-Tarrasque strategy? - but I like the 4e tarrasque's earthbinding aura as a way of keeping flight in check.

Yes. That abomination (the anti_Tarrasque stratgey). Yeah I quite liked that aura too

The 4e tarrasque, as written, is one of the weaker solos in the original MM. In particular, its action economy is terrible. That's why I gave my version some better action economy (a move action trample, the minor action tail slap and hurled rubble as well as a minor action bite, and an immediate action reflective carapace vs ranged and area attacks to recapture some of that original MM2 flavour).

Oh agreed. It was a high level MM1 critter for a start ;-)

Here are the stats I used:[sblock]The tarrasque Level 30 solo brute
Gargantuan elemental magical beast XP 95,000

Hp 1420 Bloodied 710 Initiative +23
AC 43 Fort 49 Ref 38 Will 32 Perception +19, blindsight 20
Speed 8, burrow 8, climb 8 (earth walk, forest walk)
Immune charm, fear Resist 10 all
Saves +5 Action Points 2

Traits
Earthbinding: any flying creature within aura 40 has its fly speed reduced to 1 and its maximum altitude reduced to 20 feet (any creature above this altitude at EitsT falls to an altitude of 20 feet)
Terrifying embodiment of wanton destruction: any square it enters become DT
Elder of annihilation: its melee attacks ignore all resistances, if slowed its speed is only halved, and at the end of its turn any one condition on it ends
Eternal slumber: if reduced to zero hp, the tarrasque sinks back into the world’s core and slumbers once again

Standard Actions – at will
* Piercing bite (melee 3 vs 1 target): +34 vs AC for 2d12+21 and OG 30
* Rending bite (melee 3 vs 1 target): +34 vs AC for 6d12+21 and -5 penalty to AC til ETarrasque’sNT
Frenzy (only if bloodied; creatures in cl burst 3): as either piercing or rending bite against each target

Move Action – at will
Trample: it moves up to its speed (provoking OAs as normal) and may enter enemy’s spaces (but may not end its move in an occupied space); if it enters an enemy’s space it makes a melee attack: +33 vs Ref for 2d12+25 & knocked prone

Minor Actions – at will
Tail slap (melee 3 vs 1 target not attacked with any bite this turn): +32 vs Fort for 6d12+21, push 4 sq & knock prone Miss: creates a collapsing fissure extending 10 sq from a sq adj to the target, in a direction of the tarrasque’s choosing, that lasts until E of a T in which the fissure makes an attack; if this inc a sq occupied by a Medium creature or if a Medium creature enters a sq, attacks as free action: +32 vs Ref for 2d12+9, restrained & OG 10 (escape DC 32 ends both)

Bite (R5,6 only if not bloodied): make a piercing bite or rending bite attack

Hurl rubble (ranged 20 vs 1 creature): +32 vs Ref for 4d12+19, push 3 sq and knock prone

Triggered Action – at will
Reflective carapace (immediate reaction if a ranged or area attack misses the tarrasque): repeat the attack against another target within 20 sq of the tarrasque

While bloodied, on an initiative of 10+its initiative check, it may use a free action to trample (if it is immobilised, restrained or unable to take free actions, that effects ends instead)


STR 42 (+31) DEX 26 (+23) WIS 18 (+19)
CON 36 (+28) INT 3 (+11) CHA 7 (+13)
Alignment Unaligned Languages –[/sblock]

I think those stats are pretty consistent with MV standards for 4e solo design. My 30th level PCs certainly didn't have much trouble taking it down, especially once more than one of them turned their full attention to the task.

Ultimately I felt that "MV-ing it" and intelligent play was all it really needed. Mostly the latter, but the former never hurts.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

When I first moved to Austin, I laughed because everyone pronounced "Guadalupe" street "Guad a loop" street. I opined that even someone from MN recognized that that isn't how it was pronounced, and I was informed that when someone in a Spanish speaking country adopted an English word, they would apply Spanish pronunciation rules to it, so it was equally appropriate to apply English pronunciation rules to a Spanish word. That made sense to me, so I figure that works for the Tarrasque--if you are in France, pronounce it like the French, and if you are in Texas, pronounce it like the Texans do.


I would go "Terraaaaaaa ask" because in Godzilla movies, it is much cooler when they yell "Godzilllllllaaaaaaa" then when they just say "Godzilla" or "Godziller", and that is as close I could get.


"Oh crap" also works.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Isn't that weird? It seems like that has always been the case for getting swallowed for almost all monsters, at least since 3e. I would much prefer it if it was a lot harder to attack (muscle action constricting the victims) or a lot deadlier. Being swallowed is usually no more than an inconvenience, in my experience. The only explanation I can think of is that it was intentional to have characters popping out of the gullets of creatures everywhere, a la Red Riding Hood.

When swallowed by the Tarrasque, you are blinded and restrained, giving you disadvantage on all attacks. (Unless the DM rules that you have offsetting advantage because the Tarrasque can't see you; a rules-lawyer might argue that point but as a DM I would never buy it.) Against AC 25, having disadvantage is a significant impairment. It will reduce a +11 attack bonus from hitting 35% of the time to merely 12% of the time. Meanwhile you're taking 16d6 acid damage every round, so time is definitely not on your side.

Getting swallowed by the Tarrasque is not a very good offensive strategy. It's better defensively than being stuck in its mouth while it mauls you; but presumably the Tarrasque isn't going to swallow you whole in the first place unless it's in a rush to move on to other creatures. Otherwise it will keep you in its mouth, restrained and helpless, while it chews you and claws you/etc. for 148 points of damage per round.

Anyone who deliberately engages the Tarrasque in melee is either a moron or showboating.

 

[jasper]

5th edition, specifically, but I'm also curious about how encounters went in other editions.

Bonus question: how do you pronounce it? I've always said "tah-ras-kee."

last night with my shoe. My wife calls it 'TEH EEEEKKK!"

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

In practice, I don't think the cheese methods would actually work, due to a combination of movement and reach and readied actions. A low-level Fly spell would wear off before anyone could kill the Tarrasque, and it's not just going to stand there motionless while you try.

A 5th level Int 18 wizard on a Phantom Steed has two easy options: either Acid Splash it for 4.9 damage per round on average (DC 15 vs. Dex +0 save = 70% success rate) while using your steed's 200'-per-round movement rate (or 100' if it's Disengaging instead of Dashing) to stay out of the 5E Tarrasque's pathetic 20' reach; or cast Magic Weapon on a longbow and plink away at long range for an average of maybe 10-12 points of damage (depending on Dex) for every gp's worth of arrows expended, expecting one critical hit per quiver of arrows. It will take you about 65-70 gp worth of arrows and three castings of Magic Weapon to kill the Tarrasque.

As a DM, I immediately see that the 5E Tarrasque is incredibly weak, and decide not to use it as written... because there's no way that pathetic excuse for a monster could destroy civilizations without someone having already killed it.

A fairly minimal tweak would be to give it back its unstoppable regeneration (say, 3 HP per round) and remove all the restrictions on Frightful Presence. The AD&D Tarrasque frightened anything that could see it; there's just no reason for that silly 120' range limitation. And the clause about "once you save successfully, you're immune for 24 hours" is even sillier. It means that anyone can inoculate themselves against Tarrasque fear just by exposing themselves and then running away for a full minute until the effect ends. Just. No. Removing that limitiation means you have to keep making saves every round all day, which is perfectly reasonable for a legendary monster.

Give it Immutable Form as well like a Golem, and say a 20' burrowing speed (half speed through solid rock like a Purple Worm), and now you have the recipe for a legendary monster.

 

[Ashrym]

@Hemlock

Yeah, but the ready action can mitigate kiting tactics, and the Tarrasque can actually move 100 ft just like the phantom steed can by using all 3 legendary actions on movement. Wizards also don't bother memorizing phantom steed because it's a ritual and would typically spend the extra 10 minutes casting the spell even if it's in the spell book as a ritual. Unless the wizard knows he's facing the Tarrasque in advance and has a day's time to rest and prepare spells the game is not going to play that way even in the oddball situation where the wizard took phantom steed as one of his 2 spells scribed at 5th level ignoring all the other choices. It's not like a wizard turns 5th level and grabs leomund's tiny hut and phantom steed while ignoring combat spells.

It would take longer than the duration of the mount's existence to drop the Tarrasque's 676 hp at 4.9 avg dpr than the duration of the phantom steed's 1 hour. Phantom steeds disappear after taking any damage at all, even a 1 point of damage.

Range is clearly a disadvantage with the Tarrasque. There are just a few issues with phantom steed as a solution, including the generally eventual problem with running out of places to run when kiting by getting boxed in by structures.

The first thing I would look at would be throwing objects as a potential ranged option. Sweeping it's tail along rubble and sending it flying following impromptu weapon rules allows for a range of 60 ft and following impromptu damage rules allows for a typical 1d10 damage, for example. It's reasonable for the DM to increase that range based on the creature size, much like giants throwing boulders compared to humans throwing stones but that's DM dependent (I might go with 60/180 as 3x the impromptu ranges). Ignoring the party and continuing to destroy buildings is still going to destroy villages in the rampage but collapsing rubble would also bury party members in rubble and inflict 4d10 damage in the process following the improvised damage tables.

The improvised attacks and damage characterize the destructive nature of this particular threat.

If I were to take it further, I would be inclined to add in regen and a breath weapon. If I want something like Godzella (because Godzilla as a property is owned elsewhere afaik) then some spiral breath and regen fits that iconic monster as well. A solid range line breath weapon resolves range issues.

EDIT: how did you get 4.9 average DPR off of 2d6 on a 15 DC? It looks like you forgot the spell resistance and I'm getting 3.43 avg?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Yeah, but the ready action can mitigate kiting tactics, and the Tarrasque can actually move 100 ft just like the phantom steed can by using all 3 legendary actions on movement.

It doesn't have three legendary actions when fighting a solo wizard. It only has one. (Stupid, I know.)

There is no action you can Ready (out of those available to the Tarrasque by RAW) that will prevent the wizard on a Phantom Steed from killing you. He'll approach to 60' and cast his Acid Splash, and then you'll... what? If you Ready a Move, his steed will just Disengage back out of range. (If he starts his turn 70' away from you, he can burn 10' getting closer, cast his spell, burn his mount's action on Disengage, and burn the other 90' of movement moving back to 150', which means that even if you Dash you only move back to 70'. Your Legendary Action will move you to 50', which doesn't help you because on next turn he will just Acid Splash right away and move right back to 150' again.)

Wizards also don't bother memorizing phantom steed because it's a ritual and would typically spend the extra 10 minutes casting the spell even if it's in the spell book as a ritual. Unless the wizard knows he's facing the Tarrasque in advance and has a day's time to rest and prepare spells the game is not going to play that way even in the oddball situation where the wizard took phantom steed as one of his 2 spells scribed at 5th level ignoring all the other choices. It's not like a wizard turns 5th level and grabs leomund's tiny hut and phantom steed while ignoring combat spells.

I'm discussing why I don't find the Tarrasque as written a plausible civilization-ending threat, and your argument is that... the wizard wouldn't know about the Tarrasque at least ten minutes in advance?

It would take longer than the duration of the mount's existence to drop the Tarrasque's 676 hp at 4.9 avg dpr than the duration of the phantom steed's 1 hour. Phantom steeds disappear after taking any damage at all, even a 1 point of damage.

If you're doing 4.9 damage per round, and the mount lasts an hour, that's 600 * 4.9 = 2940 HP. How is that not larger than 676?

Range is clearly a disadvantage with the Tarrasque. There are just a few issues with phantom steed as a solution, including the generally eventual problem with running out of places to run when kiting by getting boxed in by structures.

The first thing I would look at would be throwing objects as a potential ranged option. Sweeping it's tail along rubble and sending it flying following impromptu weapon rules allows for a range of 60 ft and following impromptu damage rules allows for a typical 1d10 damage, for example. It's reasonable for the DM to increase that range based on the creature size, much like giants throwing boulders compared to humans throwing stones but that's DM dependent (I might go with 60/180 as 3x the impromptu ranges). Ignoring the party and continuing to destroy buildings is still going to destroy villages in the rampage but collapsing rubble would also bury party members in rubble and inflict 4d10 damage in the process following the improvised damage tables.

The improvised attacks and damage characterize the destructive nature of this particular threat.

If I were to take it further, I would be inclined to add in regen and a breath weapon. If I want something like Godzella (because Godzilla as a property is owned elsewhere afaik) then some spiral breath and regen fits that iconic monster as well. A solid range line breath weapon resolves range issues.

EDIT: how did you get 4.9 average DPR off of 2d6 on a 15 DC? It looks like you forgot the spell resistance and I'm getting 3.43 avg?

You're right, I forgot to account for 5E Magic Resistance. (I run Magic Resistance differently, so sometimes forget to apply vanilla MR in Internet discussions.) Make that 2058 damage over the course of an hour. Not a significant change in threat level; doesn't obviate the need for a Tarrasque rewrite.

 

[DM_Jeff]

Back in Second Edition one of the greatest memories the group had was the accidental wakening of the Tarrasque is a colossal underground cavern. The battle raged and raged until they realized they best they could hope for was losing half the party. So they devised a way to use spells and alchemy to collapse and flood the cave. To this day the lore is those PCs still think they know where it rests.

And in a Pathfinder game that was just a chore, three friends asked me to run their uberized mathematically maximized (yet legal) characters against the Tarrasque. They even asked me to give it some mythic powers and add anything else I thought was fair for their CR. In the end let’s just say I actually felt bad for the poor guy being humiliated by math.

And we always said tar-ask.

 

[Ashrym]

It doesn't have three legendary actions when fighting a solo wizard. It only has one. (Stupid, I know.)

That's only true if it's a deserted community the Tarrasque is destroying. Just as stupid but there should be people fleeing etc to give more legendary actions.

There is no action you can Ready (out of those available to the Tarrasque by RAW) that will prevent the wizard on a Phantom Steed from killing you. He'll approach to 60' and cast his Acid Splash, and then you'll... what? If you Ready a Move, his steed will just Disengage back out of range. (If he starts his turn 70' away from you, he can burn 10' getting closer, cast his spell, burn his mount's action on Disengage, and burn the other 90' of movement moving back to 150', which means that even if you Dash you only move back to 70'. Your Legendary Action will move you to 50', which doesn't help you because on next turn he will just Acid Splash right away and move right back to 150' again.)

The tarrasque can ready a ranged attack or spray of debris as mentioned earlier. Animal level intelligence has demonstrated learned ability that can be comparable. That gets back to my attack and damage comment earlier. There are rules for improvised attacks, weapons, and damage; the range is 60 ft for an improvised ranged weapon an a medium sized creature. The only thing stopping that is a DM who decides the Tarrasque cannot have learned to deal with range with such a tactic (via something like a tail sweep). Improvised monster damage on something meant to destroy buildings and structures reasonably sends debris flying.

The problem with phantom steed is that it has the traits of riding horse and any damage ends it. The spell states the horse is a quasi-real creature and that means the 80% chance to be frightened prevents the phantom steed from approaching the Tarrasque. That same issue affects the 5th level wizard as well with his +3 save bonus failing more often than not, giving a minute of not being kited to damage buildings etc.

I'm discussing why I don't find the Tarrasque as written a plausible civilization-ending threat, and your argument is that... the wizard wouldn't know about the Tarrasque at least ten minutes in advance?

My argument is that the 5th level wizard doesn't have the spell added to his spell book at all, among other things. Too many choices to add at 5th and 6th level. The 10 minute casting time is 10 minutes the Tarrasque is attacking and destroying things. Possibly the wizard in question.

I agreed range is an issue for the Tarrasque and didn't disagree about ending civilizations. What I disagreed on was the phantom steed argument because getting boxed into structures or terrain features can clearly end it in addition to 1 point of damage and the lack of any 5th level wizard I've ever scene having taken it as a priority. 5th level characters don't kill it because they are afraid and flee with their families.

Entire civilizations is an overstatement based on what the Tarrasque does but that doesn't mean it's not going to devastate a community, which is okay because the 5e description doesn't claim the Tarrasque destroys entire civilizations. Page 286 of the MM states it obliterates everything in it's path and devours entire towns. It doesn't claim it's a civilization ending threat.

If you're doing 4.9 damage per round, and the mount lasts an hour, that's 600 * 4.9 = 2940 HP. How is that not larger than 676?

I had a brain fart there. I was converting based on a different system in my head for some reason. We'll call it a metric hour. ;-)

You're right, I forgot to account for 5E Magic Resistance. (I run Magic Resistance differently, so sometimes forget to apply vanilla MR in Internet discussions.) Make that 2058 damage over the course of an hour. Not a significant change in threat level; doesn't obviate the need for a Tarrasque rewrite.

Working on the Tarrasque is a separate issue from what I was discussing. Regen and a ranged breath weapon work wonders for the rewrite. My disagreement is with phantom steed. As is (based on your assessment) it would average 198 rounds (rounding up from 197.etc) to kill the Tarrasque at that rate. That's a lot to damage the Tarrasque is doing in the meantime and a long time for a phantom steed to not get boxed in or take a single point of damage. It also doesn't take directly killing everyone in a civilization to cripple it. Destroying sources of knowledge or history in libraries and archives, killing leadership or watch / guard opens up crime, scattering herds as lost food sources, dead bodies leading to disease, destroying mills and smithies etc delaying repairs, and whatever else might be impacted in the aftermath are still going to come into play.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Entire civilizations is an overstatement based on what the Tarrasque does but that doesn't mean it's not going to devastate a community, which is okay because the 5e description doesn't claim the Tarrasque destroys entire civilizations. Page 286 of the MM states it obliterates everything in it's path and devours entire towns. It doesn't claim it's a civilization ending threat.

It can destroy any civilization that doesn't have magic, since it's entirely immune to non-magical attacks. It could destroy the modern US, for example, though it would take a while.

The game makes no assumption about the availability of magic weapons or the rarity of spellcasting classes, beyond assuming that player can play a wizard or cleric unless the DM says otherwise. The Tarrasque, as written, could easily destroy a significant subset of possible civilizations. It could even have been created by a magical civilization for the purpose of destroying a neighboring non-magical civilization.