Has lack of an insider account kept you from playing 4E?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ha, that's lucky! We were so poor we lived in a rolled up newspaper inside a sceptic tank and sucked water out of a damp rag!

Bah!

I was so poor, to roleplay, I had to cut myself open, cover my innards in butter and put myself on a plate!

 

[Ourph]

So, in other words, your players don't rely on the CB, they merely use it for convenience?

I'm not sure I get the distinction you're making. They "rely" on the CB in that, all of their characters are built and maintained using the CB per my request. This is convenient for both them and me.

If the distinction is whether they would be unable to create a character by hand, without access the to the CB, I'm sure they could. It wouldn't be as easy to check for mistakes that way, but we're not incapable of playing without the DDI.

 

[Dausuul]

If the distinction is whether they would be unable to create a character by hand, without access the to the CB, I'm sure they could. It wouldn't be as easy to check for mistakes that way, but we're not incapable of playing without the DDI.

That was the distinction I was making, yes.

You can, to a sharply limited extent, get the CB to acknowledge house rules and homebrewed elements... but since it doesn't factor such things into the math, you have to adjust the numbers manually. I can't imagine how you'd do that without knowing how to build a character by hand. How else could you possibly know where to apply the modifiers?

If it reaches the point that no one in a group can build a character without the CB, then that group will be incapable of applying house rules or homebrewed elements to chargen. (Maybe a few very trivial house rules, I guess... give everybody an extra feat or at-will power, stuff like that.)

 

[unan oranis]

I would agree to this if is actually DID print out everything you need. But it does not, not even on the full pdf sheet. Feats especially, though sometimes it omits odd things. I have seen the sheets before(some people used them in my games).

In my group, no one uses DDI and it has not hurt our game at all. Most of our character sheets are a single page, because the book to look it up anything we need to is in the same room, but mostly we do not need to.

As for requiring hte sheets to play. I would steer clear of such gamers.

Meh, I'd never insist a someone play with a CB sheet if she didn't want to, just that a copy of the character was printed out with the CB for my own reference at the very least.

If worse came to worse I'd just do it myself. Again, super weirdo dm's in the OP are being lame IMO.

My group had it's first 4e 100% zero-look-anything-up session the other day, so I can't claim we're the smoothest operation in town. But the CB sure does help.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, anyone who wants me to play 4Ed had better get used to the fact that I won't be using CB- I'm a Mac user who doesn't run any kind of Windows emulation, so its not even an option for me.

 

[Obryn]

I can say that I'd probably ban all Dragon content if I didn't have DDI to keep track of it all. I'd restrict the players to a few core books, just like I did under 3.5.

-O

 

[Ourph]

That was the distinction I was making, yes.

You can, to a sharply limited extent, get the CB to acknowledge house rules and homebrewed elements... but since it doesn't factor such things into the math, you have to adjust the numbers manually. I can't imagine how you'd do that without knowing how to build a character by hand.

Agreed.

If it reaches the point that no one in a group can build a character without the CB, then that group will be incapable of applying house rules or homebrewed elements to chargen.

I'm pretty sure any group interested in house rules won't ever get themselves in a situation where no one in the group is familiar enough with the rules to create a character by hand. If a group goes around tweaking rules they are so unfamiliar with that they can't use them without computerized help, the likely have larger problems than whether they got their +1 to hit added correctly.

 

[Dykstrav]

Wow, that's just...wow. How old was this player?

I haven't had any really bad CB experiences, but I have very mixed feelings about it too. I use house rules, and the CB has a way of passive aggressively making that more difficult.

Most of my group really likes the CB, and one guy really should use it, but I feel like it's a crutch that I myself am better off without.

This player is in their mid-forties, introducing their children (late teens to early twenties) to the game now. They actually have tried their hand at DMing and I'm curious about it. I'd love to sit in on a session to see how other DMs do things.

I have noticed that very few 4E games use house rules of any sort, and some 4E players find it strange that I house rule things in 4E. I don't know how much of this is directly attributable to the character builder.

I have mixed feelings about the character builder myself. I don't personally like it enough to use it, but I can see how other people might find it useful. It's certainly not cool enough for me to get an Insider account for.

I can say that I'd probably ban all Dragon content if I didn't have DDI to keep track of it all. I'd restrict the players to a few core books, just like I did under 3.5.

Yeah, my general policy is exactly that: nothing beyond the Player's Handbook without direct approval. That seems to be another unspoken side effect of Dungeons & Dragons Insider that I hadn't considered. I have noticed that many players assume that all Insider content and all supplemental content is allowed by their DM.

 

[Chainsaw]

That seems to be another unspoken side effect of Dungeons & Dragons Insider that I hadn't considered. I have noticed that many players assume that all Insider content and all supplemental content is allowed by their DM.

I encountered this as well when I was briefly planning a 4E Science Fantasy campaign that would have involved various limitations or changes on available classes, powers and races. People (primarily, but not exclusively, new players) acted like I wanted to play Chess with only half the pieces when I suggested all they wouldn't be able to use anything and everything they found in CB.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

This player is in their mid-forties, introducing their children (late teens to early twenties) to the game now. They actually have tried their hand at DMing and I'm curious about it. I'd love to sit in on a session to see how other DMs do things.

How we do what particular things?

I can tell you that I don't ban anything based on source, even though I don't get DDI. I've heard some of it is cheesy, but nothing game-breaking has popped up at the table yet. I love being able to say "Anything goes!" and be fairly confident in the game's balance.

Although to be honest, I don't like that some options are DDI-exclusive. What, buying actual books isn't good enough anymore? WotC needs to dangle even more carrots for us to buy a monthly service that may or may not be completely rebooted with 5e?

I have noticed that very few 4E games use house rules of any sort, and some 4E players find it strange that I house rule things in 4E. I don't know how much of this is directly attributable to the character builder.

Well the decline in house ruling isn't directly attributable to the CB, but it definitely is responsible at least in part.

The CB is like the first printing presses to appear. It's a kind of monolithic living entity that subtly moves everyone toward standardization. For most gamers I know, it's a simple case of "Well, I suppose I could house rule, but the CB already does everything for me...so in order to house rule, I'd have to actually write stuff down...so, meh, why bother?"

The CB even puts subtle pressure on DMs like me, who don't like the game exactly as it is. As I said earlier, I use a few house rules, but the CB doesn't have options for most of them. So my players have to fiddle around with the software to create 'back door' house rule options. My players rarely complain about my house rules--because they mostly benefit the PCs--but I feel bad making them fiddle around with the software all the same.

I've considered a No CB rule for my campaigns, just to cut out my players' growing dependance on it, but they are paying for it. And we round-robin DM, so even if I banned CB character sheets, they'd still use it for our other campaigns.

I have mixed feelings about the character builder myself. I don't personally like it enough to use it, but I can see how other people might find it useful. It's certainly not cool enough for me to get an Insider account for.

Agreed.

Though I do have one player who really should use the CB. He's very dyslexic, and still can't remember basic concepts like the 'half-level to attacks, defenses and skills' rule. I'm not sure if it's his dyslexia, or the fact that D&D isn't his game of choice. The other players have offered to share their CB subs with him, but he refuses for some reason.