Has the DM fallen from grace?

[Nullzone]

Yes because we have already have video games which allow you to do this without a DM.

DM-less table top role playing really defeats the whole purpose.

You've missed the purpose and role of the DM entirely, as well as his/her relationship to the players, if this is truly what you believe.

 

[Scribble]

Just because you weren't unenpowered that doesn't mean other's have not and vice versa...

It's become more about the player's and less about the DM...

The game has never been about "empowerment" for players or DMs. The game has never sought to give one group the right to lord it over the others.

It's about getting together around a table to do something that is fun for all involved.

Exactly what version of the rules does that the best is a subjective opinion that each person/group needs to make for themselves.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

You've missed the purpose and role of the DM entirely, as well as his/her relationship to the players, if this is truly what you believe.

The purpose of the DM is to be the world you are playing in. He is the judge, jury, puppet master, god, narrator, and anything else one can think of. The DM is just as important as the player's and his role is just as much a part of the game. The DM is who brings the world to life.

I understand perfectly well the role of the DM and if you want to play a game that doesn't have a DM then go and play a video game.

The DM is the one who executes the possibility of going outside the parameters. If the player says he wants to go here or go there and it's outside the box then it's the DM who makes this possible.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

And you know the key characteristic of a video game?

When you want to do something that the video game hasn't anticipated, it always says, "No."

What then is the point of having a human DM who acts like a video game?

I think it went over your head.

If there is no DM like the poster above stated he wanted then who would be the one to answer you and execute that certain something you wanted to do that wasn't anticipated.

If you are playing a table top RPG with no DM then you are essentially playing a video game. If would be the same as playing Chess against yourself.

 

[FireLance]

I think it went over your head.

If there is no DM like the poster above stated he wanted then who would be the one to answer you and execute that certain something you wanted to do that wasn't anticipated.

If you are playing a table top RPG with no DM then you are essentially playing a video game. If would be the same as playing Chess against yourself.

I think your analogies need a little work. In the first place, playing without a DM is not the same as playing with yourself. It is more akin to playing a board game, or running a co-operative story-telling exercise. In effect, all the players should agree to abide by the rules, and agree on a conflict resolution system that doesn't rely on one person to lay down the law.

In addition, playing a video game isn't like playing chess with yourself, either. It's like playing chess with a computer.

 

[Scribble]

If you are playing a table top RPG with no DM then you are essentially playing a video game. If would be the same as playing Chess against yourself.

Well... Not if the game was designed to be played by yourself.

Chess, like current TRPGs is not designed to be played by yourself, but that doesn't preclude one that is.

(Also some TRPGs have rules for playing solo...)

The difference I see is that the actions of a videogame are "set in stone" for the most part. IF I want to jump, and there is no jump feature in the program, it won't happen. I can yell JUMP a bunch of times, and nothing.

A TTRPG is more easily manipulated. If a rule doesn't exist, the players can quickly/easily make one up on the spot.

There isn't really a NEED for this to be done by a DM. Nothing prevents that payers of a solo game from doing the same thing. The trick would be that all players involved would have to play "fair" when it comes to ad-hocking stuff.

 

[Raikun]

Right. Which was why I prefaced my initial comment with "Assuming combat had not already started, of course."

And the funny part, was the response to that was:

No. All the dragon would need to know in the first round is what is magical and what isn't.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I think your analogies need a little work. In the first place, playing without a DM is not the same as playing with yourself. It is more akin to playing a board game, or running a co-operative story-telling exercise. In effect, all the players should agree to abide by the rules, and agree on a conflict resolution system that doesn't rely on one person to lay down the law.

In addition, playing a video game isn't like playing chess with yourself, either. It's like playing chess with a computer.

I wasn't talking about video games in that regard. Playing D&D by yourself would be like playing Chess by yourself.

Okay, or it would be like choosing two player's in a video game of chess when it's only you sitting there with two controllers.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

And the funny part, was the response to that was:

You still don't seem to get it. A party that has no magic at all is going to get a breath weapon immediately.

A party that has anything magical coming from them changes things a bit.

 

[D'karr]

I think it went over your head.

If there is no DM like the poster above stated he wanted then who would be the one to answer you and execute that certain something you wanted to do that wasn't anticipated.

If you are playing a table top RPG with no DM then you are essentially playing a video game. If would be the same as playing Chess against yourself.

Condescending much?

I think that Firelance makes a perfectly good point. You mentioned that

the DMG tells DMs to refrain from telling PC's no, and that's taking some of the DM's right away.

The problem is that you're taking that to extremes and then making an argument out of that notion.

You need to go look at the DMG again and look at the context of that statement.

Firelance's comment is making a comparison of the "always say no DM" to the video game because that is exactly what you get when you have a DM that routinely does this. In every situation that he does not have an answer to, he resorts to just saying no.

That is also an extreme, as most DMs fall somewhere in the middle. But the statement is still accurate. A video game will say no, when confronted with a situation that it was not designed for.

The DMG does nothing to relegate the DM to a secondary role, as a matter of fact it does exactly the opposite.