D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

I don't quite understand what the definition of "a linear game" is. Because if it is literally linear, from A to B to C etc, no room for deviation or change of the player actions to affect the outcome, I really do not see how it is not a railroad, albeit possibly one the players willingly follow. Or is that the difference? Railroading is defined as the GM using force to prevent the players from deviating from the path, but if on the linear adventure the players never try to deviate from the path then technically such force is not needed?
It is all about Feelings.

The Linear Game is nearly all RPGs as it has to be....you have to have a Start-->Middle--->End. That is how things work.

And no matter how much you love to stay in the Sandbox Wasteland most people will prefer to do something more

When most people cry Railroad they are talking about a Clumsy or Bad DM .

No. Because if the GM frames events in such way, that there is always only the one sensible thing to do, it is still a railroad, just more elegantly done than one where the GM uses force to block outcomes. To avoid this the situations should be more open ended, without one obvious outcome. Basically if you can run it with several different groups of players and they all end up making the roughly same choices leading to the same outcomes it is probably a railroad.
This is the big problem with the Railroad Concept.

When you have One person in a game that is creating the whole game reality.....and 1-4 people just playing characters in that reality......you will always be Playing in the DMs World. Now this is basic, classic RPG 101. This is how RPGs started and is how most of them are: it is the excepted norm.

But that completely misses the point. A railroad isn't a railroad until the DM tries to force the players back on to the track when they're doing something else. In my opinion, you can't write a railroad,
I will agree in general, but still point out it is very close to possible.

In a harsh, cruel Old School RPG run by a Killer DM a simple adventure like ""the PC is poisoned and has 24 hours to find the cure" is a is a good Railroad. The player will stay very focused and motivated to to the task of saving their character.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... There are as many possibilities as there are players. Good module authors will allow for many possible options, but it's impossible for an author to think of everything -- that's why you need a DM.
To be fair, a lot of authors run in to the classic problems of space and time. If your given the job of witting a 32 page module, with seven pages of art and maps, so 25 pages.....that is a Hard Limit. No matter what you write, it has to fit into those 25 pages. And with an introduction, set up, conclusion and even just one new monster...you can take up five more pages. So that just leaves 20 pages for the adventure.

And you often get a fairly tight deadline: by this date. Period.

Worse, once you submit something...they get the right to edit it any way they want.

Let's say we have a scenario where the characters are approached/hired by the watch to help investigate a series of disappearances in a local district. Rumours point to some sort of people smuggling (or whatever) that may be operating out of a warehouse down by the docks but the watch haven't the time or resources to chase that lead up yet. It's obvious that that is the push and in a railroaded adventure, that is the only option. No talking to anyone else or going anywhere but the warehouse.

In a linear adventure, that is still the pointed lead but the players might decide to do some investigation first. Ask around the family, friends and neighbors of the missing. Canvas the streets of taverns. Set watches on the docks or the warehouse/s. Maybe doing some research in the local library or hall of records. Use their spells and abilities. The story still goes forward as before, but in a linear game, the players can get their in their own way, They can do whatever investigation or other actions before hand. That is what makes it linear over railroaded.
Woah....um.

So, you did not quite match up the adventures here. So the "railroad" to you is where the PCs are given a plot story problem and then they actively try to solve it? So the PCs actively go and try and find those missing persons.

And the "linear game" is where the PCs are given a plot story problem and utterly waste time doing whatever they want and ignore it? Like ok....so the players take five hours to have their PCs talk to everyone in town and learn "rumors say something fishy is going on in that warehouse". So, what is the positive here? The "railroad group" would have gotten to the warehouse at least 4 1/2 hours ago to play trough the adventure.
 

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Option C is the players rejecting the laid out path and either going back or simply refusing to move forward, so the DM either runs something else (prepared or otherwise) or cedes to someone else to run (something else). It happens when the players despite prior buy-in, don't like the adventure/adventure path and want something else.

IF the DM tricks/forces them to follow the path despite their choice not to - that's railroading. Or if the players were never given the choice in the first place, the DM starts running something preset, the players don't like it and want something else, but the DM tricks/somehow forces them to keep going - that's railroading.
So Option C is to not have a game at all?
 


Yeap, which is why ive gotten real weary of sandbox pitches. I've had too many fake outs over the years. The worst was a GM that wouldnt railroad in the traditional sense, he would let players make all kinds of decisions. However, none of them would amount to anything until they found the "right" decision which was like one of those Sierra adventure games when you had to pull the door instead of push it. We'd exhaust hours with red herrings, failed plans, false leads and the GM would just nod and inform us it was all moot until we just kicked in every door and killed every person in every adventure....

Craig Of The Creek Reaction GIF by Cartoon Network

Well, that gets pretty complex: part of it is that they're still thinking in terms of adventures, where a really classic sandbox didn't necessarily have a lot of those in the way we'd think of them. They just had--situations. People are less likely to have single-path things when they think of the latter rather than the former. But it also excludes a lot of interesting play-space, so people want to have their cake and eat it too.

But I don't think there's any real virtue in selling one kind of game as another, but then, I'm not a massive fan of illusionism in general. I'm the guy who has most die rolls in the open any more.
 

Okay, so the GM creates a series of scenes and encounters for the PCs to engage with, a path for them to follow.

Option A: The players follow the path as laid out by the GM. Hence a "linear adventure" is had.
Option B: The players do not follow the path but the GM forces/tricks them into following the path. Hence a "railroad" is had.
Option C: ???

Please, enlighten me! What is Option C?

I think their point was that while that might be the only difference, its a heck of a big one in terms of the experience.
 

No, option C is to not do the adventure that's planned because it's not hitting with the players.
If the GM has prepared an adventure, and the players won't engage with, other than playing a completely different game, what could possibly happen?
But not having a game at all IS better than the players being forced into one they don't actually want.
Indeed it is. No gaming is better than bad gaming, as they say.
 

No, option C is to not do the adventure that's planned because it's not hitting with the players.

Though I think acting like they're still playing and not engaging with the extent adventure, after they'd agreed to go with it is pretty bad form too. Just outright say "We don't find this at all interesting, can we do something else?" Then the GM can go "I'm not really interested in something else, so it'll be someone else's gig."
 


If the GM has prepared an adventure, and the players won't engage with, other than playing a completely different game, what could possibly happen?

The DM, if he can, can run a completely different adventure. And if the the players still aren't engaging, then maybe the group just isn't a fit - that happens.

Hopefully everyone involved is approaching the game in good faith. If not, that's a different issue.
 

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