Has the wave crested? (Bo9S)

[Zaruthustran]

I really like some of the concepts in Bo9S. Just wish the book had received a bit more polish. The organization of information is a bit scattered, the colored page backgrounds is hard on the eyes, the art is... bad--just plain bad, and the Crusader's recovery mechanic is confusingly retarded.

I'm hoping the next Tome of Battle (assuming there is one) will keep with the per/encounter vibe but move to a token system.

 

[Nepenthe]

I really like some of the concepts in Bo9S. Just wish the book had received a bit more polish. The organization of information is a bit scattered, the colored page backgrounds is hard on the eyes, the art is... bad--just plain bad, and the Crusader's recovery mechanic is confusingly retarded.

Agreed. I wouldn't call it just "a bit scattered", either, some of the stuff is downright hidden (like the fact that stances count as maneuvers for prerequisites).

I'm also quite unsure about the way non-ToB classes access the maneuvers and stances, I can't help but get the feeling that it could have been handled in some more elegant way.

/N

 

[WhatGravitas]

Cutting walls of adamatine in half with a single stroke, jumping twenty feet straight into the air, shrugging off axe blows and then healing the damage when you counter attack, throwing your sword in such a fashion that it returns to you, and so forth are what I'm talking about.

It does not feel right to me.

I feel similar with the "Desert Wind" school (i.e. the fire-esque discipline) and the dimension jump manoeuvres in Shadow Hand, but all other schools, except the text in italics and the strange glowy artwort, strike me as very mundane... the "chopping adamantine walls" isn't bad, because the wizard can reduce them to a heap of dust, the barbarian can hack it to toothpicks in the same time and... you get the gist.
Shrugging axe blows off... many fighters and barbarians withstand much, much more - heck your average barbarian can take a short bath in fire and jump down from the orbit (incl. surviving)!
Throwing and returning swords? There is one single manoeuvre that does that. And a PrC, but then D&D has far, far worse PrCs. And if PCs are actually interested in doing this at all, they'll get a returning weapon on 6th - 7th level, because then they're rich enough to get a returning weapon.

Eh, the Book isn't that supernatural flavoured - with the exception of one school. The rest is very mundane, only exaggerated by the wire-fu inspired descriptions. But the effects... well, they are just stretching the mundane, while the average wizard will bend the laws of physics, when he casts magic missile the first time, and then on 5th (with fly) he doesn't even listen to gravity at all...

But meh... the main good point of the book is: I suddenly like to play melee characters. Previously I was an almost spellcaster-exclusive player, because - frankly - "I do full attack" is boring. Now I get my tactics and resource-allocation/planning fix.

 

[Alceste]

But meh... the main good point of the book is: I suddenly like to play melee characters. Previously I was an almost spellcaster-exclusive player, because - frankly - "I do full attack" is boring. Now I get my tactics and resource-allocation/planning fix.

Yup, I am enjoying playing a melee character again myself. My tank (crusader) is a blast to play but not more powerful than the paladin / cleric / druid / wizard etc. A couple of abilities should not disqualify any book. We set some houserules on the warblade but was pretty much it.

 

[Henry]

Y'know, just reading this last week, it occurred to me that there is one error that stands out to me; the fact that there are no (or almost no) Devoted Spirit maneuvers described as non-extraordinary, yet most every one of them either heals someone, or is described as "divine power" this, "holy that", etc. In other words, most of the devoted spirit maneuvers REALLY should be supernatural, like the desert wind stuff, but NONE of them are that I saw...

 

[Nifft]

Y'know, just reading this last week, it occurred to me that there is one error that stands out to me; the fact that there are no (or almost no) Devoted Spirit maneuvers described as non-extraordinary, yet most every one of them either heals someone, or is described as "divine power" this, "holy that", etc. In other words, most of the devoted spirit maneuvers REALLY should be supernatural, like the desert wind stuff, but NONE of them are that I saw...

Depends how you see hit points. Can a morale boost give you the drive to continue fighting despite having dodged, parried, and blocked sword blows that would have killed a lesser man?

If HP are abstract, why is "curing" them always supernatural?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kmart Kommando]

While the Crusader mentions 'flashes of divine insight', the first stance you can get that heals says "this healing represents the vigor, drive, and toughness you inspire in others. your connection to the divine causes such inspiration to have a real, tangible effect on your allies' health."

So, it's kind of like a morale bonus..to your hit points. Mind over body doesn't translate too well into hit point totals. You see allies getting hammered, your morale and confidence may go down, you see an ally kicking ass, you might push through your pain and try to keep up.

"I want to be heroic, but I only have 3 hit points left.."

 

[Sejs]

Cutting walls of adamatine in half with a single stroke, jumping twenty feet straight into the air, shrugging off axe blows and then healing the damage when you counter attack, throwing your sword in such a fashion that it returns to you, and so forth are what I'm talking about.

Question -

Do you have a problem with psionics?

Particularly the psychic warrior class, both in conception and execution.

Because under the ki/psionics-are-the-same transparancy, martial initiates are doing the exact same thing. They're physical adepts. Channeling magic in a particular way to enhance their fighting.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I really like some of the concepts in Bo9S. Just wish the book had received a bit more polish. The organization of information is a bit scattered, the colored page backgrounds is hard on the eyes, the art is... bad--just plain bad, and the Crusader's recovery mechanic is confusingly retarded.

What pictures specifically are you referring too? I really liked the picture of the war blade under the war blade class. The one with all the cloth and looks like he has a readied action. The artist is on concept art.com and has even gotten on the front page a few times. It cant be that bad.

 

[gamecat]

I think it's a totally awesome example of power inflation. Bo9S is exactly the kind of crazy crap I want in my campaign. But I can see why some folks would think it's too much.

w3rd